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TOM! MI!

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TOM! MI!

Postby blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:02 pm

I have written here that

TOM!

can be

MI!

as a special case in the vocative. is this because in the vocative
MEUS can also be MI in special cases? this is assuming these are
possessive adjectives and not personal pronouns

also if Peulla is 'PEULLA!' then why does 'Tom' become 'MI!'
instead of just remaining 'TOM!'



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Re: TOM! MI!

Postby adrianus » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:32 am

blutoonwithcarrotandnail wrote:I have written here that

TOM!

can be

MI!

as a special case in the vocative.

It isn't clear what you are talking about.
De quo dicis, non clarum est.

Do you mean "Oh, my Tom"?
Visne dicere hoc: "O mi Thomas"?
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: TOM! MI!

Postby blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:15 am

I am talking about direct address of a person in the vocative itself

PEULLE!
SERVE!
TULLI!

for some reason in my notes i seem to have that

TOM!

can also be 'MI!'

or likewise that VIRGILLI! can be MI!

is this correct?

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Re: TOM! MI!

Postby spiphany » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:05 am

Meus and mi are adjectives. They can't replace a noun, but they can be used in addition to one. I think you must have gotten something confused in your notes.
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
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Re: TOM! MI!

Postby ptolemyauletes » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:33 pm

No. 'Mi!' Is meaningless on its own. It is like someone standing on the street corner and shouting 'My!' 'My what?' is the confused reply.

I think what your instructor meant was not that Mi! can replace Tom!, but that it can complement it.
I can address Tom in Latin with a simple vocative, 'Tom! Or I can address him with his name AND 'mi.
mi Tom! = 'My Tom', an oddity in English perhaps, but perfectly normal in Latin.
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Re: TOM! MI!

Postby adrianus » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:36 pm

Not meaningless, ptolemyauletes/spiphany. "O, mi!" means "O my dear/beloved (masculine)",—that, as a substantive, could be what blutoonwithcarrotandnail has a reference to.
Non sine significatione, ptolemyauletes spiphanyque; "O mi amor/amice care" significare potest quod in aliquo loco inveni canorcaeruluscarotaclavoque ut nomen substantivum.

Otherwise, as you say // Aliter, ut dicitis: "O Virgili! mi!" = "O Virgili mi!" = "Oh, Virgil! My beloved!" = "Oh, my [dear/beloved] Virgil" or "Oh, my Tom" = "O, my dear Tom"

mi Tom! = 'My Tom', an oddity in English perhaps, but perfectly normal in Latin.
Not such an oddity in English where I come from, I must say, alongside "Our Tom!" (voc.), and "My man/woman/boy/girl/dear!" isn't so strange elsewhere, is it?
Dictum anglicum non novum in illâ regione ubi habito, dico, unâ cum "Thomas noster!"; similiter alibi quoàd "Mi/mea vir/puer/puella/mulier/care", nonné?
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: TOM! MI!

Postby blutoonwithcarrotandnail » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:35 am

spiphany wrote:Meus and mi are adjectives. They can't replace a noun, but they can be used in addition to one. I think you must have gotten something confused in your notes.


granted then the only way to use TOM! in the vocative in Roman is TOM!
just like VIRGILLI! is VIRGILLI!

there is no possesive adjective (MEUS, MEI..) or personal pronoun (EGO, MEI..)
which can replace TOM! in any case?

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