<br /><br />au fur et à mesure is one of those phrases that doesn't really translate well, you just have to understand the meaning. I see your point is that there are words and phrases in Latin that loses something when you try to translate it to some other language.<br /><br /><br />I also want to be able to understand as (au fur et à mesure que) I read.
<br /><br />Well, the best way to learn a language is by immersion, but we're quite limited in places we can go to for Latin!mariek wrote:[quote author=Ioannes1985 link=board=3;threadid=772;start=0#7763 date=1065410423]<br />Unfortunately this transition does not occur. No matter how much you translate and how quickly you do translate, you won't be any closer to understanding the sentence. You will merely be adept at producing a handicapped English (or Spanish, French, etc.) rendition which loses something from the original.
Ioannes1985 wrote: Unfortunately we not have a country to go to in order to be immersed in the sound and culture of a Latin speaking country, but that does not mean there is no hope. Remember, more than one road leads to Rome so to speak.
benissimus wrote:False false false! Conscious grammar has very little to do with sight-comprehension. The feeling that you have to get for a language to be able to really understand it comes from hearing and/or reading it. Memorize Allen & Greenough's probably won't help you learn Latin any better, but practice and reading will (and speaking if you are able).
The sound of Latin poetry (which, by the way, is also widely misunderstood and mistaught) is as very much important as the words of the sentence.
mariek wrote:Ioannes1985 wrote: Unfortunately we not have a country to go to in order to be immersed in the sound and culture of a Latin speaking country, but that does not mean there is no hope. Remember, more than one road leads to Rome so to speak.
Ah well... guess we better work on that Time Machine!
Episcopus wrote:Grammar grammar grammar is the way in which it must be done. And it works with those capable of handling it.
Keesa wrote:benissimus wrote:False false false! Conscious grammar has very little to do with sight-comprehension. The feeling that you have to get for a language to be able to really understand it comes from hearing and/or reading it. Memorize Allen & Greenough's probably won't help you learn Latin any better, but practice and reading will (and speaking if you are able).
I agree with Benissimus here. I speak English better than 99% of the people around me, but until last year, I never used a grammar book. I didn't learn what conjugating a verb was until I started learning French, and I didn't learn how to decline a noun until I started learning Latin! And yet, somehow, my English marks all come back almost twice as high as the nationwide average. Clearly, grammar is not essential to mastering a language.
tdominus wrote:The sound of Latin poetry (which, by the way, is also widely misunderstood and mistaught) is as very much important as the words of the sentence.
In what ways do you feel that Latin poetry is misunderstood and mistaught?
Unfortunately many teachers substitute stress for length in reading Latin poetry, probably because English is a stress-oriented language and long vowels are not normally used. But if you are going to read Latin, you should read it as the Romans spoke it, and there is no questions about the fact that when they specified a vowel as LONG grammatically, they meant "L-O-N-G" acoustically. To read Latin with stress substituting for length is wrongheaded, it makes Vergil sound like something conjured up on a rocking-horse, and misses the real sound of Latin verse, which can be quite lovely.
Ioannes1985 wrote:There is also a series of textbooks written in an entirely different manner than Wheelock's or Latin for Americans, etc.
http://users.cybercity.dk/~bbe6711/
That link is for a series of books written entirely in Latin for people wishing to learn Latin directly. From what I have seen of it, nothing is introduced via an English word. For example. instead of having regina defined as queen, the word is merely placed with a picture of a queen. After all, word association is a major part of learning any language. You will never understand a language if you must associate all of its words with words in another language. When you hear arbor you should not think tree but instead should immediately have the image of a tree come to mind.
http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris ... s.lat.html
That is a good place to start with. That site is a great source of information and another perspective. The Professor Emeritus who runs the site even suggests a method for discontinuing the practice of translation.
mariek wrote:Ioannes1985 wrote: Unfortunately we not have a country to go to in order to be immersed in the sound and culture of a Latin speaking country, but that does not mean there is no hope. Remember, more than one road leads to Rome so to speak.
Ah well... guess we better work on that Time Machine!
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