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ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

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ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby jaihare » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:02 pm

In the beginning of Athenaze we are told that Dikaiopolis lives ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς (cf. the very first reading: οἰκεῖ δὲ ὁ Δικαιόπολις... ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς [p. 3]). The gloss reads "in the country (lit., in the fields)."

We find in §41 of FGB that ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ οἰκίαι ἦσαν (exercise #8).

My question is whether or not there is a difference in meaning between these two expressions, or are they synonymous to the point that it doesn't matter which one you might use?

Thanks,
Jason
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Re: ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby oberon » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:02 pm

jaihare wrote:My question is whether or not there is a difference in meaning between these two expressions, or are they synonymous to the point that it doesn't matter which one you might use?


They are not synonymous. agros means "field," and in the expression ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς it refers to "country." Chora actually just means space or place. However, it is commonly used in greek to refer to lands, such as the barbarian lands. The difference between the expressions is that ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς is restricted to fields and country.
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Re: ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby jaihare » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:02 pm

oberon wrote:They are not synonymous. agros means "field," and in the expression ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς it refers to "country." Chora actually just means space or place. However, it is commonly used in greek to refer to lands, such as the barbarian lands. The difference between the expressions is that ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς is restricted to fields and country.


So, I assume that ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ is more like "in the region, area, land, country" (בארץ, בשטח, במדינה, באיזור in Hebrew) while ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς is more like "in the fields, countryside" (בשדות in Hebrew). The difference is in the domains of "country" and "countryside," I think. What do you think about this?

Thanks for responding to this.
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Re: ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby oberon » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:12 am

jaihare wrote:So, I assume that ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ is more like "in the region, area, land, country" (בארץ, בשטח, במדינה, באיזור in Hebrew) while ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς is more like "in the fields, countryside" (בשדות in Hebrew). The difference is in the domains of "country" and "countryside," I think. What do you think about this?



The greek χώρα is indeed akin to the hebrew אךץ (cognate with arabic أرض) and ἀγρός to hebrew שדה, but comparisons to a seperate language family (semitic) are probably not very helpful. Comparisons with latin would probably get you further.
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Re: ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby oberon » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:08 pm

jaihare wrote:The difference is in the domains of "country" and "countryside," I think.

I missed this earlier. No, that is not the diference. The difference is "fields" (esp. cultivated) foragros. However, cultivated fields were what we would call the country or countryside.

Chora, however, is NOT country or countryside, but "land" or even "place" in general. It can refer to anything from a particular kingdom to a particular landscape.
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Re: ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby jaihare » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:43 pm

Adalfredo wrote:They are not synonymous. agros means "field," and in the expression ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς it refers to "country." Chora actually just means space or place. However, it is commonly used in greek to refer to lands, such as the barbarian lands. The difference between the expressions is that ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς is restricted to fields and country.
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Thanks for that, but why the spam ads? Posting spam like this is against the forum rules. Have you made an introductory post on the Open Board? Perhaps you should read the rules before posting here.
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Re: ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby MiguelM » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:08 am

It seems that spambot or spammer just copied oberon's post (to make it seem legit) and added the links. These are getting far more subtle.
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Re: ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby jaihare » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:38 pm

So, then, how does χώρα compare with πεδίον?

Thanks,
Jason
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Re: ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ = ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς ?

Postby jaihare » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:41 pm

ἔγραψα·
So, then, how does χώρα compare with πεδίον?

Thanks,
Jason

Nevermind. Overcame my laziness and checked LSJ. It means "plain". There was a sentence in Complete Ancient Greek that speaks of futility and says:

ἵππον εἰς πεδίον διδάσκεις τρέχειν.
You are teaching a horse to run to a plain.

:)

πεδίον, τό, (πέδον)
plain, in Hom. mostly sg., Il.5.222, al. : in pl., 12.283, Hes.Op.388, etc. ; ἐν πεδίῳ on a fertile plain, opp. ἐν πέτραις, Men.719.
metaph., of the sea, δελφινοφόρον πεδίον πόντου A.Fr. 150 ; πόντου π. Αἰγαῖον Ion Trag.60 ; π. πλόϊμα Tim.Pers.89.
freq. with gen. or adj. of particular plains (mostly in sg.), πεδίον Αἰσώπου A.Ag.297 ; τὸ Τροίας π. S.Ph.1435 (but τὰ Τ. π. 1376) ; τὸ Θήβης π. Id.OC1312 ; Καϋστρίων π. Ar.Ach.68 ; τὸ Κιρραῖον π. Aeschin.3.107 ; τὰ Θετταλικὰ π. Pl.Plt.264c ; τὸ Ἄρειον π., = Lat. Campus Martius, D.H.7.59.
esp. the plain of Attica, IG12.842C7, Hdt. 1.59, Th. 2.55, Is.5.22.
ἱππέας εἰς π. προκαλεῖσθαι, prov. of challenging persons to do that in which they excel, Pl.Tht.183d, cf. Men. 268.
part of the foot next the toes, metatarsus, Gal.UP3.5, al., Poll.2.197.
pudenda muliebria, Ar.Lys.88.


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