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Wheelock Chapter 30

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Wheelock Chapter 30

Postby Einhard » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:35 pm

Salvete all,

I'm jusy checking my translations of the P&R and SA questions from Chapter 30 with those of the answer key, and there's a discrepancy in the tenses into which some of the verbs are translated. For example,

P&R No. 2- Videbit quanta fuerit vis illorum verborum felicium
The key translates videbit as "He was seeing" whereas I have it in the fut ind act as "He shall see".

P&R No. 8- Iam cognovi cur clara facta vero non sint facillima
The key has cognovi as "I know" while I have "I have known, I knew".

SA No. 12- ...: verus amor nullum novit habere modum
The key reads "true love knows"; I have "true love has known, knew"

I would put the differences down to minor errors in the answer key, but in the latter two sentences, the key's translations seems a better fit. I'm thinking perhaps that the subjunctive has something to do with it, but I can't see how. So any suggestions would be helpful.

Einhard.
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Re: Wheelock Chapter 30

Postby quickly » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:29 pm

We just finished chapter thirty in class (so I may be wrong), but I would translate as follows:

PR2: videbit as 3rd. Sg. of videre; fuerit as 3rd. Sg. (subj.) of sum. According to the sequence of tenses, I would translate: "He will [shall] see how great the force of those felicitous words was."

PR8: cognoscere in the perfect tense means "to know" (i.e., to have learned or recognized). Our teacher recommended that we treat the perfect system of cognoscere as active in regards the sequence of tenses, hence non sint. I believe an equivalent sentence is "Iam scio cur clara facta vero non sint facillima," so "I know [cognovi, scio] why...are not..."

SA12: I believe noscere is semantically equivalent to cognoscere, so I would treat it as PR8: "true love knows to have..." - and I assume [i]verus amor nullum scit habere modum" is also equivalent.
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Re: Wheelock Chapter 30

Postby Einhard » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:22 pm

Thanks for that. It always seems so obvious after someone points it out for you!!
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Re: Wheelock Chapter 30

Postby Damoetas » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:52 pm

Quickly is right: videbit is future; the answer key treats it as if it were videbat (imperfect), so that must be a mistake.

Novi and cognovi are perfect tense forms that have a present meaning: 'I know.' The last sentence (SA 12) is a quote from Propertius (2.15.30). And since it's poetry, novit has to be used because scit wouldn't fit the meter (without rearranging the whole line in some way). But if not for that consideration, scit would be roughly equivalent to novit.
Dic mihi, Damoeta, 'cuium pecus' anne Latinum?
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Re: Wheelock Chapter 30

Postby quickly » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:36 am

Sorry, I meant to post this sooner. Here is what Wheelock's says on (cog)noscere:

"
[pp. 205] There are two common and quite logical exceptions to the rules for sequence of tenses: a historical present main verb (i.e., a present tense used for the vivid narration of past events) will often take a historical sequence subjunctive, and a perfect tense main verb, when focusing on the present consequences of the past action, may be followed by a primary sequence subjunctive (see P.R. 8...).
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