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Iliad 3:391-396

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Iliad 3:391-396

Postby JauneFlammee » Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:53 pm

I have a couple questions about this passage:<br /><br />(Caution: Spoilers for those who may want to read the Iliad and not know what happens in advance)<br /><br />The context: Aphrodite has just snatched Paris out of his one on one battle with Meneleaus where he was getting creamed. She drops him in his bedroom and goes to Helen and summons her to come to him and also says..<br /><br />392   .... ou)de/ ke fai/hs   <br />393      a)ndri\ maxessa/menon to/n g' e)lqei=n, a)lla\ xoro\n de\   <br />394      e)/rxesq', h)e\ xoroi=o ne/on lh/gonta kaqi/zein.   <br /><br />This whole thing seems to be rather cryptic but specifically.<br />[face=SPIonic]a)lla\ xoro\n de\ e)/rxesq' [/face]<br />The verb here seems to me to be 2nd plural middle indic, but the Loeb translation translates this clause as <br />'but rather he was going to the dance' <br />whereas it seems to me it should be<br /> ' but You(plural) go the dance' ?<br /><br />Also, in line 394. The loeb translation puts [face=SPIonic]neon[/face] with verb to end up with 'recently ceased'. However, it seems to belong to dance to me, ending up with something like 'ceasing the new dance'. How can you tell if is an adjective decribing the participle 'ceasing' or the noun 'dance'? <br /><br /><br />395      w(\s fa/to, th=| d' a)/ra qumo\n e)ni\ sth/qessin o)/rine:   <br />396      kai/ r(' w(s ou)=n e)no/hse qea=s perikalle/a deirh\n   <br />397      sth/qea/ q' i(mero/enta kai\ o)/mmata marmai/ronta,   <br /><br />Is it just me .. or are there vaguely sexual overtones in the way Helen is looking at Aphrodite here? Do people always recognize Aphrodite by her beautiful neck, yearning breasts and flashing eyes? <br /><br />Thanks<br />
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Re:Iliad 3:391-396

Postby Paul » Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:06 pm

Hi,<br /><br />Although elision of a diphthong is rare in Homer, I suspect<br />that line 393's [face=SPIonic]e)/rxesq'[/face] is actually [face=SPIonic]e)/rxesqai[/face], the present infinitive.<br /><br />This harmonizes nicely with the structure of the passage and its dependence on two other infinitives: [face=SPIonic]e)lqe/men[/face] and [face=SPIonic]kaqi/zein[/face].<br /><br />With respect to [face=SPIonic]ne/on[/face], note that it is of the same case as the following participle.<br /><br />Cordially,<br /><br />Paul
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Re:Iliad 3:391-396

Postby annis » Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:57 am

[quote author=JauneFlammee link=board=2;threadid=767;start=0#7665 date=1065203595]<br />Is it just me .. or are there vaguely sexual overtones in the way Helen is looking at Aphrodite here? Do people always recognize Aphrodite by her beautiful neck, yearning breasts and flashing eyes? <br />[/quote]<br /><br />G.S. Kirk, in volume 1 of "The Iliad a Commentary" says this:<br /><br />"396-8 But then she recognizes Aphrodite and does her best to resist her and the feelings she has inspired. These introductory verses to her speech of protest are full of ambiguity and possible contradiction, reflecting her own changing and conflicting feelings and the dubious role of the goddess.<br /><br />...<br /><br />One cannot help feeling that the unrealistic and incomplete nature of Aphrodite's disguise is meant to reflect the poet's awareness that this goddess, in particular, is a projection of personal emotions. Not that the whole scene can be reduced to an allegory of Helen's instincts and revulsions; someone has to tell her that Paris (who had vanished into thin air) is back home, gleaming with beauty; but the role of the old woman, Helen's own feelings for Paris (over which Aphrodite has presided for so long), and her resistance to them, remain ambiguous."<br /><br />Apparently Aristarchus - an early Homer scholar - found this whole passage so distressing and impious he athetized lines 396-418.
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