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How to get a true passive out of a deponent verb?

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How to get a true passive out of a deponent verb?

Postby autophile » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:50 pm

How would one translate this: Apples are farmed in the city.

The problem is that agricolor, agricolari, agricolatus sum is deponent, and has no form that gives passive meaning...
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Re: How to get a true passive out of a deponent verb?

Postby thesaurus » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:49 am

I'm still looking into this, but the grammars say that deponent verbs can be used sometimes in a passive or active sense: populari=to plunder, be plundered; partiri, to divide, be divided; criminari-I accuse, am accused.

In regards to your case, "agricolor" seems to be a rare verb. An easy fix would be to choose a new verb that isn't deponent. I'd say "Mala in civibus culta sunt."

Nunc etiam dubium tuum perscrutor, sed video libros grammaticos dicere verba deponentia iam sensum passivum, iam activum adhibere, e.g. populari, partiri, criminari, etc.

De quaestione tua ipsa, verbum "agricolor" rarum esse videtur. Fortasse facilior sit verbum novum (non deponentem) eligere. Dicam "mala in civibus culta sunt."
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: How to get a true passive out of a deponent verb?

Postby autophile » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:46 pm

I had sort of come to the same conclusion, that I had to look for a synonym. I, too, chose colo, colere, but I chose the passive indicative:

Mala in urbi coluntur.

Interestingly, in addition to being an adjective, culta is also the perfect passive participle, which would imply that the apples were cultivated, but are no longer cultivated. I suppose a Roman would understand from context that Mala culta sunt means apples are cultivated, rather than apples, having been cultivated, are. As in the M&F example in 5B2: Femina territa clamavit, the woman, having been frightened, shouted, or, the frightened woman shouted.
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Re: How to get a true passive out of a deponent verb?

Postby modus.irrealis » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:01 pm

Does Latin, like some other languages, use the third person plural active in a sort of impersonal use that's equivalent to a passive? I think I've seen it with verbs of saying (ferunt... = "they say.." or "it is said..") but is it possible with other verbs?
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