Textkit Logo

Question about Chapter 11 SA 1

Are you learning Latin with Wheelock's Latin 6th Edition? Here's where you can meet other learners using this textbook. Use this board to ask questions and post your work for feedback.

Question about Chapter 11 SA 1

Postby robor » Wed May 27, 2009 3:44 pm

Salvete,

I am confusing about the function of the word "amicum" in Sententiae Antiquae 1, chapter 11:

Virtus tua me amicum tibi facit.

Here, whether "amicum" is a noun or an adjective?

1) As an adj., the translation should be: Your virtue makes me friendly for you.

2) As a noun, the translation should be: Your virtue makes me a friend for you.

Which is correct? or both? Why?

If I say "Virtus tua me amicum tuum facit", is the translation must be "Your virtue makes me a friend of you" ?

Gratias vobis agam!
robor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Question about Chapter 11 SA 1

Postby Einhard » Fri May 29, 2009 7:03 pm

I went with "Your virtue makes me a friend to you".

I don't think you can translate it "friendly" unless you do so as a substantive adjective, where the noun is impied but not actually present. But that woud translate as: "Your virtue makes me a friendy [noun] to you", which isn't particuarly fluid. Apart from that, there's no noun for "amicum" to modify as an adj, so all in all, I think it's best to translate it as a noun in its own right.

Einhard.
User avatar
Einhard
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:05 pm
Location: Hibernia

Re: Question about Chapter 11 SA 1

Postby robor » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:45 am

But how about "Virtus tua me amicum tuum facit" ?

Have you found the different between tibi and tuum?

When we say "(friend...) for you", I think "friendly for you" is reasonable.


Robor
robor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Question about Chapter 11 SA 1

Postby Einhard » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:46 pm

robor wrote:But how about "Virtus tua me amicum tuum facit" ?

Have you found the different between tibi and tuum?

When we say "(friend...) for you", I think "friendly for you" is reasonable.


Robor


Sorry about the tardiness of the reply. You've probably figured it out by now, but answering it helps me with my own grammar so here goes:

Basically, "tuum" is declined from "tuus,tua,tuum"= "your". It's a possessive adjective. So "Virtus tua me amicum tuum facit" is "Your virtue makes me your friend".

"Tibi" on the other hand is a personal pronoun. It implies "you" rather than "your". "Tibi" is dative and thus "to you".

Hope that helps.

Einhard.
User avatar
Einhard
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:05 pm
Location: Hibernia

Re: Question about Chapter 11 SA 1

Postby Shirokazesan » Mon May 31, 2010 11:04 pm

So far as the specific example is concerned, there was nothing said at that point to clarify the intention of the phrase, but chapter 14 does have a similar sentence in one of the examples wherein the author does briefly address how to handle cases such as this. SA 1 reads (page 94): Et Deus aquas maria in principio appellavit. Both 'aqua' and 'mare,' in this example, are in the accusative plural, and the author goes on to explain that, with certain verbs not limited to but including 'appello' and 'facio,' two accusatives can be included where one is translated in the normal sense and the other as a 'predicate accusative' or 'objective complement.' In the case of the sentence above, the most straightforward translation would treat 'maria' as the adjective to read: And God called the sea waters in the beginning. As for your own example, I guess I like to play fast and loose with the translations, because I would have been content in telling you to translate that as, "Your virtue makes me your friend." So long as the sentence conveys the same meaning, and treats the original passage's wording with its due respect, I can't imagine anyone should reproach you for not being as literal as possible. The absence of definite and indefinite articles and the regular omission of possessive pronouns makes Latin, at least to me, a bit more subtle and flexible in its translation. But, as someone already said, "Your virtue makes me friendly to you" would be the most literal translation. Sorry for the belated response, but I know I felt better when I found the author addressing the issue in question only 3 chapters later, and despite the fact the first example left little ambiguity. Bonam fortunam, amice!
Shirokazesan
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:32 pm


Return to Wheelock's Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot] and 9 guests