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Check translation with deponent verb

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Check translation with deponent verb

Postby Quis ut Deus » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:40 pm

Salvete!

I'm trying to check my translation of: "Never forget the beast."

I put

Numquam Obliviscere Bestiam

with "Obliviscere" being the imperative and "bestiam" in the accusative.

Gratias vobis ago!
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby thesaurus » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:52 pm

Your use of the deponent verb is correct!

Usus tuus verbi deponentis rectus est!
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby benissimus » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:44 pm

numquam is only rarely used in prohibitions, so I would revise it to use umquam with noli or ne construction.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby thesaurus » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:52 pm

I was thinking about the "numquam" question when I wrote my reply. I thought it would fly because isn't numquam simply ne+umquam? Of course, I should have checked the actual usage of this term...
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby Kasper » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:06 pm

Oblivisci also takes the genitive, not accusative.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby thesaurus » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:07 am

Kasper wrote:Oblivisci also takes the genitive, not accusative.


Apparently it may be used with either when the object is a "thing". Lewis and Short: "constr. with gen. of pers. and with gen. or acc. of thing."

Cum obiectivum verbi "res" sit, utrumque rectum esse videtur, ut dicunt Lewis et Short.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby Kasper » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:24 am

Thank you T, I stand corrected.

Gratias tibi, T, ago. Conrectus sum.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby adrianus » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:44 am

Interesting that Ainsworth has "ne" plus present imperative for "never deny it", "ne nega".

"Noli unquàm bestiam/bestiae oblivisci", "Ne unquàm bestiam/bestiae oblitus sis", "Cura ne unquàm bestiam/bestiae obliviscaris", "Ne bestiam/bestiae obliviscere" (apud Ainsworth, verbo modi imperativi praesentis, "Ne nega" pro "Never deny it" anglicé habes).
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby benissimus » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:40 am

adrianus wrote:(apud Ainsworth, verbo modi imperativi praesentis, "Ne nega" pro [/i]"Never deny it" anglicé habes).

qui recte dixit, non sine antiquis exemplaribus. If I remember correctly, it's a rare and perhaps archaic construction; Ovid used it to great effect when he has Jupiter say, very imperiously, "ne fuge me!" in the Metamorphoseon. It's quite striking when you do see it, because it carries the unabated strength of the normal imperative, without any circumlocution.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re: Check translation with deponent verb

Postby adrianus » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:26 am

Indeed, benissimus, I saw the formula—not archaic, if Ainsworth gives it for use—before in grammars (certainly in Allen & Greenough, §450a, who do say it's archaic, mind you) but not the "never" twist in translating into English.
Ità, benissime, illam formulam—non archaicam, cùm Ainsworth eam adhibendam dat—priùs vidi (apud A&G scilicet, qui auctores verò eam archaicam esse dicunt), sed adhuc declinationem interpretationis per "never" anglicé nunquàm legi.

So "Ne fuge me!" = "Never flee me!" or "Don't you flee me!" or "Do not dare to flee me!" or "Never dare to flee me!" or "Never ever flee me!" (imperiously/imperiosè, ut dicis)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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