Textkit Logo

Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:16 am

Salvete!

I am just curious, how long have you all been studying Latin?

It seems like some of you can write an entire book if you had to!

And how long did it take you before you could handle the classical authors like Cicero and Caesar without constantly referring to the grammars and the dictionaries?

Valete!
Quis ut Deus
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:46 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby adrianus » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:06 pm

Salve Quis ut Deus

I began my study of Latin five years ago (in 2004) and still can't read Cicero without using a dictionary. Actually, I intentionally avoid reading the finest and most beautiful writings (apart from the Aeneid),—I don't like mangling lovely things! My reading, writing and speaking Latin-language skills are below the first-year standard required for a Renaissance University. I follow a Renaissance curriculum but couldn't yet dispute, or be able to grasp the whole of a University lecture in the Renaissance period, in Latin.

Ante hos quinque annos latino studere cepi; sine dictionarii usu etiam apud Ciceronem legere non possum. Vera dicere, consultò optima et bellissima scripta vito (Aeneidin separatim pono),—pulchra discerpenda abhorreo! Mihi habilitas latinè legendi scribendi loquendique eâ quae ad Universitatem Renascentiae intrandam requirebatur pejor est. Curriculum studiorum in aevo litterarum renatarum consequor, sed latinè autem disputare quidem vel totam lectionem tale in Universitate benè intellegere non queam.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby thesaurus » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:57 pm

Adrianus is of course being modest, as in my experience he is a terrific Latinist, especially in terms of his very limpid writing. Holding oneself to the requirements of a Rennaisance university is an extremely high bar, some of their alumns like Lorenzo Valla, Pietro Bembo and I think Pope Pius II could testify.

As for reading CIcero without a dictionary, I have quite a bit of experience reading his prose but I still have to use a dictionary occasionally. For me it's not an issue of needing the dictionary or not, but how often one needs it, and whether the frequency of unknown words is a significant deterrent to understanding the text. I have to use a dictionary occasionally when reading Rennaisance English authors, so I don't see why we should seek a higher bar for Latin. In an average oration I might need to look up a couple words on an Oxford Classical Text page, but usually this doesn't greatly interfere with understanding the speech. If I'm not at my computer, I make a marginal annotation next to the line and look up the word later. I'm experimenting with creating my own Latin marginalia for Ovid's metamorphoses now which helps retain vocabulary. After reading a number of pages, I go back, reference the vocab I missed, reread the sentence, and then define the unknown word in the margin in other Latin words I know. I'd be interested in hearing about others who have tried something similar.

As for myself, I've been studying Latin for almost three years now. The trick to making constant progress is to read read read, not just school assignments, but whatever you can get your hands on whenever you can. I attribute my progress to taking an intensive crash course in Latin grammar, followed by Lingua Latina, followed by copious reading since then. I used to have an hour commute each way on the bus to work. I would print out Latin texts and read and mark them up in the morning and after work. That kind of daily practice is going to be very important.

Certe Adrianus modestus agit, cum latinista, ut dicam, callidus sit, praesertim Latine limpide scribendo. Si desideria univeristatum Renascentiarum persequeris, culmen admodum altum scandere niteris, quoniam qualibus ex universitatibus orti fuerunt homines latine perdocti sicut Laurentius Valla, Pietrus Bembo, et Aeneas Sylvius (Papa Pius II).

De Ciceronem sine vocabulario legendo, mihi etiam rebus Ciceronianis paululum docto interdum vocabulario uti necesse est. Ut dicam, haec non est disputatio anne vocabulario utendum sit, sed quotiens sit necesse atque utrum verba ignota lectioni valde obstent anne. Cum auctores aevi Renascentiae Anglicos legerim, mihi nonnumquam vocabularium consultare oportet, itaque non intelligo cur non ita fiat latine legendo. Oratione Ciceronis aliquâ sumptâ, unâ paginâ Textûs Classici Oxoniensis lectâ me nonnulla verba conferre fieri potest, sed plerumque hoc non lectioni obstat. Si computatrum deest, annotationes in marginem iuxta lineam verbum contentem scribo ut postquam ea scrutari reminiscar. Marginalia latina scribere tempto Ovidii Metamorphoses legens, qua ratione melior verborum significationes menti haereant. Nonnulis paginis lectis, verba ignota refero, sententias denuo lego, et ea verba latine definire conor alia mihi nota adhibens. Mihi intersit audire si alios hîc ita legere.

De me ipso, tres fere annos linguam latinam discebam. Secretum est legere legere legere, non solum cum tibi pro scholâ studendum sit, sed etiam semper legendo quandocumque tibi legere vacat. Prosper sum ego cum protinus rudimenta Latinae didicerim, item librum "Lingua Latina" et demum semper latine legi. Olim mihi accidit unam utrimque horam in coenautocinetum omne die degere, atque aliquid latine, quod prius computro transcrisperat, legebam necnon annotabam. Ita tibi faciendum est si velis optime latine procedere.
Last edited by thesaurus on Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
thesaurus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 979
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:44 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:46 pm

Thesaure et Adriane

Gratias vobis ago!

Thanks for the support and the stories.
Quis ut Deus
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:46 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby adrianus » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:42 pm

Mistakenly posted here. Sorry.
Perperàm hîc scripsi. Amabò te, me excuses.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby adrianus » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:18 pm

thesaurus wrote:Adrianus is of course being modest

Ah! You see through me, dear Thesaurus! By declaring myself a poor candidate for a Renaissance university it sounds rather impressive, indeed, if the opposite might be believed. I am hoping that the title after my name, "Near Alumnus of Whatever University of the Renaissance, Bachelor of Arts Failed", will impress the unsuspecting.

Ecce! Meam personam in conspectu omnium ponis, Thesaure care! Quod me miserum canditatum ad universitatem Renascentiae esse clamo atqui adversum credatur, certè id graviùs in animum descendit. Spero fore ut hoc epitheton illos minimè suspiciosos commovebit, "Quasi Alumnus è Quacunque Renascentiae Universitate, Baccalaureatus in Artibus Defectus".
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:03 am

Well. you guys are great in my book and I am very grateful to have you guys helping me.

Boni sunt et grata sum auxilium suum (eorum) habere. :?
Quis ut Deus
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:46 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby paulusnb » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:13 am

I did not stop looking at my charts until I taught Latin. The dictionaries I still use.

I started studying Latin 9 years ago. The first four of those, however, I did not take very seriously. As far as ease of reading goes, it varies with the author. I can go through a Catiline passage I prepped years ago much faster than I can a dense passage of Ovid.

I think it is best not to worry so much about your level of proficiency. This will only make you feel inadequate and inclined to quit. What is more important is that you move along. You have a lifetime to figure things out.

I think Thesaurus is right about the importance of reading and routine. Proficiency is not too hard. Maintaining it is the pain. And unfortunately, with something like Latin, maintaining it means reading texts which are not always a gas. I try to read Latin every day. Since I am a Latin teacher, this is easier for me. However, I am only teaching Latin I right now (I am building a program at a new school) so I have had to be stricter on myself. I try to go to sleep reading the Vulgate or Vergil or Harrius Potter every night. I join Ovid reading groups on textkit that wait and wait and wait for the kinks to be worked out. :wink: I read Taurus Rex and Quot Animalia to my daughters (they hate it).

One last suggestion....I feel that it is better to read 400 lines of something at your level than 20 lines of something above your level. Think of the way you learned to read English. You progressed from **** and Jane through Hardy Boys to Shakespeare. Do the same with Latin.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
User avatar
paulusnb
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: New Orleans

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:17 am

Salve paulusnb!

Thanks for the advice. I can definitely read the stuff in D'Ooge much easier than Wheelock. I also flip through the Vulgate, because I have an idea what's going on since I've read parts of the Bible in English already.

I've also progressed through the Cambridge Web site, and I plan to get "Lingua Latina."

Gratias tibi ago!
Quis ut Deus
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:46 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby paulusnb » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:05 am

paulusnb wrote:You progressed from **** and Jane through Hardy Boys to Shakespeare. Do the same with Latin.



OK. The fact that the program censors out **** in **** and Jane is hilarious. See **** run. **** is fast.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
User avatar
paulusnb
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: New Orleans

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby adrianus » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:32 am

Quis ut Deus wrote:I am very grateful to have you guys helping me.

I, too, am grateful to have your help, thesaurus's, paulusnb's and others. It helps a lot to thinks about questions, answers and mistakes in Latin.
Gratus et ego ut auxilium et tuum et thesauri et paulusnb et aliorum habeam. De quaestionibus atque responsis ac soloecismis latinè cogitare fructuosissimum est.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby cantator » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:45 pm

Let's see, it's 2009 now, I started seriously studying the language around 1971 or 1972 when I took private lessons from a teacher at Bowling Green State University. Unlike Adrianus, my immodest focus has been almost exclusively on the poets, and I've read more Medieval Latin prose than prose from the Classical period.

Alas, I can claim none of the apparent fluidity in speaking or writing as seen in the posts from so many of the talented people here. Fortunately my interest in Latin has been tangential to the rest of my life's work, so I've just enjoyed it as a deep pastime. Much like my involvement with t'ai chi, it's something valuable and richly rewarding that will remain with me for my whole life.

As an aside, I encourage all my fellow students to persevere with diligence. The pay-off is indeed true and grand, and well worth your efforts and time.
Similis sum folio de quo ludunt venti.
User avatar
cantator
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:21 am
Location: NW Ohio USA

Re: Solus curiosus, mei amici!

Postby adrianus » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:32 pm

Great, paulusnb! Quàm mirum!
See, disgraceful **** and Jane run free and uncensored in Latin.
Eccunt! Ricardus impudicus Janaque liberi sinè censurâ currunt latiné.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 55 guests