the girl and her country
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:34 am
the girl and her country
be kind,
i translated sentance c in chapter 2:
patria puellarum sine pecunia non valet.
the girl cannot leave her country without money.
so far its slow going but gratifying.
i translated sentance c in chapter 2:
patria puellarum sine pecunia non valet.
the girl cannot leave her country without money.
so far its slow going but gratifying.
- benissimus
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 2733
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
- Location: Berkeley, California
- Contact:
Re: the girl and her country
A good attempt, but valet means "is well" not "leaves". Also, puellarum is a genitive and cannot be the subject of the verb. Patria is in the nominative and has to be the subject of the sentence.incipio wrote:be kind,
i translated sentance c in chapter 2:
patria puellarum sine pecunia non valet.
the girl cannot leave her country without money.
so far its slow going but gratifying.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:46 am
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
Re: the girl and her country
grrrrr ..... i'd wished you'd gotten to a conclusion on this one! I've found the same sentence, and am trying to translate.
I figure it is :
(The father of the girls)
Patria puellarum
(without money)
sine pecunia
(isn't well)
non valet
So together, sounds like a bit of a proverb almost, but referring to the same 'girls in Wheellocks other examples:
The father of the girls isn't well without money. Or, it doesn't do for the father of these girls to be without money.. or something like that.
Can someone confirm??
I figure it is :
(The father of the girls)
Patria puellarum
(without money)
sine pecunia
(isn't well)
non valet
So together, sounds like a bit of a proverb almost, but referring to the same 'girls in Wheellocks other examples:
The father of the girls isn't well without money. Or, it doesn't do for the father of these girls to be without money.. or something like that.
Can someone confirm??
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:48 am
Re: the girl and her country
patria pellarum sine pecunia non valet
The father of the girls is not healthy (powerful, strong, influential, well, more loosely could be "is not in good health") without money.
Valeo as an imperative is like saying "goodbye" or "take care", and it has to do with being in good health.
I'd say
The father of the girls is not (able to be?) in good health without money.
The father of the girls is not healthy (powerful, strong, influential, well, more loosely could be "is not in good health") without money.
Valeo as an imperative is like saying "goodbye" or "take care", and it has to do with being in good health.
I'd say
The father of the girls is not (able to be?) in good health without money.
Semper ubi sub ubi!
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:16 am
Re: the girl and her country
"Patria" in this sentence is the noun "fatherland/homeland/country", as in dulce et decorum est pro patria mori - It is noble and glorious to die for one's country.
Hence, "The girls' country is not strong without money".
Hence, "The girls' country is not strong without money".
ignorantes latinam deo minore nati
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:46 am
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
Re: the girl and her country
I WAS going to ask about 'Patria' ..... as
a) I was seeking a sentence that made sense. (with the word 'country' it no longer makes sense to me).
b) I knew the nominative of father is 'Pater' ... .so suspected that I was wrong...
I would think this is a mistake
The original sentence then should have been 'Pater puellarum sine pecunia non valet'.
a) I was seeking a sentence that made sense. (with the word 'country' it no longer makes sense to me).
b) I knew the nominative of father is 'Pater' ... .so suspected that I was wrong...
I would think this is a mistake
The original sentence then should have been 'Pater puellarum sine pecunia non valet'.
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 799
- Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
- Location: Melbourne
Re: the girl and her country
why doesn't it make sense? "the fatherland of the girls cannot be well without money", although rather textbookish, it makes perfect sense (e.g. consider the impending bankruptcy of the US). there is no mistake.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:46 am
- Location: Germany
- Contact:
Re: the girl and her country
ok, so it could make some sort of sense...... except, really it has nothing to do with the girls.
you could just have well have written " the fatherland of the mice cannot be well without money".
Whereas, if it was the father of the girls...... well, then one begins to make the connection that girls are expensive to keep, and gives an 'extra' reason why this poor man needs money.
But of course, grammatically, there is no problem. It would just be nice to be able to read something in my learning, worth reading.
you could just have well have written " the fatherland of the mice cannot be well without money".
Whereas, if it was the father of the girls...... well, then one begins to make the connection that girls are expensive to keep, and gives an 'extra' reason why this poor man needs money.
But of course, grammatically, there is no problem. It would just be nice to be able to read something in my learning, worth reading.
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 799
- Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
- Location: Melbourne
Re: the girl and her country
hehe yes of course! that's the problem with most textbooks isn't it? Just keep up the work and after you finish the grammar book you will gradually become able to read many things that very worthwhile.svaens wrote: It would just be nice to be able to read something in my learning, worth reading.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:58 am
Re: the girl and her country
So then is pecunia in the ablative case? I dont know that I understand why it is in the Ablative case if I am correct... Could someone maybe explain this sentence a bit more?
Cases are really throwing me for a loop
Scott
Cases are really throwing me for a loop
Scott
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:06 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: the girl and her country
Yes, when you are using sine (sine pecunia), the thing that you are without (money in this case), is in the ablative.
- Einhard
- Textkit Member
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:05 pm
- Location: Hibernia
Re: the girl and her country
patria puellarum sine pecunia non valet.
"patria" (the fatherland, country etc) is the subject of the verb "valet" (valere-to be strong, powerfu, well). "non" makes the verb negative.
"puellarum" is the gen pl of puella (girl)
"sine" is without and is followed by an abl, "pecunia" means money and is in the ablative; hence, "without money"
Put them al together and you get:
The girls' country is not strong without money.
"patria" (the fatherland, country etc) is the subject of the verb "valet" (valere-to be strong, powerfu, well). "non" makes the verb negative.
"puellarum" is the gen pl of puella (girl)
"sine" is without and is followed by an abl, "pecunia" means money and is in the ablative; hence, "without money"
Put them al together and you get:
The girls' country is not strong without money.
-
- Textkit Member
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 1:43 am
- Location: Lilburn, Ga.
Re: the girl and her country
Hey,svaens wrote:It would just be nice to be able to read something in my learning, worth reading.
I have been studying Wheelocks for 1 year this past April and am now just starting Ch. #6. I understand your frustration w/ wanting to read anything. It takes some time but you will find that Latin is not an easy language to learn but it will keep you on you toes, keep your mind sharp, increase your curiousity about it (and other languages for that matter).
A suggestion: search around on the internet for Latin sites, like St. Louis Univ., and look for reading materials. It has helped me tremendously.
dlb
.
Deus me ducet, non ratio.
Observito Quam Educatio Melius Est.
Observito Quam Educatio Melius Est.