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Translating Lucus Eques' reports

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Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby dsimo04 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:04 pm

Hello all,

Having not seen Lucus Eques’ website in a long time, I noticed that in December he wrote and made recordings in Latin of news broadcasts. They are great, and he speaks very well.
http://www.scorpiomartianus.com/
I have a couple questions regarding translations:

In the most recent report, part of the report is regarding new taxes in New York:
“Novum Eboracum vectigalia plurima imponere in animo est Gubernatori Patersono nuntiat New York Daily News.”
I’m having trouble with "…in animo est Gubernatori Patersono…” Is the line saying that New York is levying many taxes in the spirit of, or due to the influence of Governor Patterson? If so, what is the significance of Governor Patterson in the dative there?

In the next report down, regarding Russian naval vessels being sent to Cuba:
Primum est cum naves belli e Russia advenerint Cubam a temporibus Sovietis. Temptatio est ut Uniti Status provocentur in eorum hemisphaera ponderis, dum et America foedera militaria circum Russiam icit.

“It’s the first time that warships from Russia came to Cuba since the Soviet era. It’s an attempt that the United States would be challenged in their hemisphere…” I can’t figure out what ponderis is doing here. Its pondus, ponderis right? An impediment or a burden?
Continuing-
“…meanwhile an American military treaty around Russia was made.”
I'm not quite sure I have that translated right.

Any help or suggestions would be great.
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby adrianus » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:25 pm

Salve dsimo04

in animo mihi es
t = I intend (dative of possession = possessionis dativus) I have a mind to... In my mind is to...

pondus = influence
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby Imber Ranae » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:29 pm

I'd have thought Novum Eboracum should be dative.
Ex mala malo
bono malo uesci
quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby adrianus » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:06 am

You impose a tax (or anything) on a place, with the place in the accusative, but you can have dative, too. Better to put "in" with the place, I believe, according to what I've read.
Vectigal (vel quidquam) in locum (locus accusativo casu est, vel etiam dativo) imponis. Melius est cum "in" praepositione locum dari, ut opinor et secundùm quod legi, nisi fallor (L&S).

"...dum et America foedera militaria circum Russiam icit" = "and until (i.e., seeking to bring about that) America strikes military treaties regarding Russia" verto
Last edited by adrianus on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby dsimo04 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:03 am

Salvete Adriane Imberque et gratias vobis ago!

One more question:

Regarding ponderis, thanks for the alternative translation of 'influence' - I did not know that. But how does it fit in the sentence or translation? I recognize that its in the genitive. But I'm having trouble placing its use, or what word it modifies.

Iterum gratias!

Dan
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby thesaurus » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:51 am

I believe "in eorum hemisphaera ponderis" means "in their sphere of influence."

Credam "in eorum hemisphaera ponderis" significare Anglice "in their sphere of influence."
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby adrianus » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:17 am

Also, "...provocentur in hemisphaerâ ponderis suâ" is less ambiguous than "eorum", I reckon. And "momentum" in Latin fits here, but "pondus" is understood OK, surely.
Nota, hîc "suâ" minùs ambiguum quàm "eorum" est, ut puto. Latinè "momentum" pro anglicè "influence" bonum et aptum est, sed significatio "pondus" nominis etiam benè intellegitur.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby dsimo04 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:47 pm

I believe "in eorum hemisphaera ponderis" means "in their sphere of influence."


:oops: Duh...I should have seen that. Thanks. I am working on the next one down now, regarding the then proposed bill to help the big 3 automakers:

Bushi administratio respondebit pecunia ejusdem servationis argentariae pro Wall Street utens ad "Magnos Tres" curruum venditores adjuvandos.


What is servationis argentaria? I'm thinking reserve bank? or perhaps the treasury department? or is it a reference to TARP? "The Bush administration will respond (that) the same (TARP/treasury/reserve bank) money for Wall Street will be used to help the "big three" auto sellers.

Am I right to translate utens contemporaneously with respondebit , i.e. "will be used"? Or should it be translated in the present tense, i.e. "is being used"?

Multissimas gratias omnibus ago!
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby Interaxus » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:31 am

The CNN source refers to a 'Treasury bailout' and a 'bank bailout'. Take your choice. :)

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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby adrianus » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:31 am

salvete dsimo04 interaxe
servatio argentaria = observance/protocol/considerations/services financial/monetary/banking, so as one wishes, sicut velis
administratio respondebit utens = the administration will respond [by] using ["utens" participium "administratio" verbo adicitur]
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby dsimo04 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Salve, Adriane, et gratias tibi.

So, a correct reading of this line (trying to stay as literal as possible to make sure my understanding of the grammar is correct) would be:

"The Bush Administration will respond (that by) using the financial service's money for Wall Street the 'Big Three' auto sellers should be helped."


Iterum tibi gratias ago!

Dan
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby Interaxus » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:41 pm

Financial services??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_services
I don't think so ...!

I remain convinced we have to to check out Lucus Eques’ CNN source to see what he is actually translating to Latin. Relying on the Latin alone is not enough.

Here’s my take on the sentence for what it's worth:

The Bush administration will respond <Bushi administratio respondebit>
USING MONEY <pecuniâ utens>
FROM ('OF')THE SAME TREASURY BAILOUT (USED) FOR WALL STREET <ejusdem servationis argentariae pro Wall Street>
for helping the Big 3 auto sellers <ad "Magnos Tres" curruum venditores adjuvandos> (nice gerundive!)

[From CNN: Bush ... eyes $700B bailout to rescue GM, Chrysler ... Treasury bailout targeted for Big 3 ... The Bush administration said Friday it might use taxpayer dollars set aside to bail out banks and Wall Street firms to keep troubled U.S. automakers out of bankruptcy...... the administration's apparent willingness to use money from the bank bailout fund reverses its previous position on how to help the auto industry ... help might be provided out of TARP... the TARP fund ... to tap the $700 billion bailout approved by Congress ... the Troubled Asset Relief Program or TARP...]

Cheers,
Int
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby dsimo04 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:37 pm

Piratas informaticos Sinenses impetum cyberneticum in situm legationis Gallicae intulisse Nicola Sarkozio cum Dalai Lama conveniente
Chinese hackers (information pirates) brought a cyber attack to the French Embassy with Nicolas Sarkozio meeting with the Dalai Lama.

(Comment: Would convento be better than conveniente? I ask because in the linked story, clearly the attacks came after the meeting i.e. “N.S. having met with D.L., Chinese hackers…” rather than the present participle which, to me at least, implies concurrent-ness.)


Dummodo Irania jam facultatem habuerit uranii locupletandi, fieri potest Praesidentem Iranianum Ahmadinejad minas terrae Israelianae "delendae" quas prius clamavit exsequi. Tali casu responsum nucleare ab America conjectum esset in Iraniam, ait membrum manipuli transitionis Obamae.
If Iran might now have the ability to enrich , Iranian President Ahmadinejad is able to carry out threats for Israeli land to be destroyed which he previously claimed (promised?) to accomplish. In such a case a nuclear response from America would be launched into Iran, a member of the Obama transition team said.

(Comment/question: The bolded part, although I know what it is trying to say, completely baffles me in its construction. What is the subject of potest?)

Iterum gratias vobis omnibus ago!

(edited to focus only on the specific parts I had questions on.)
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby dsimo04 » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:39 pm

*bump*
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby thesaurus » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:38 pm

Piratas informaticos Sinenses impetum cyberneticum in situm legationis Gallicae intulisse Nicola Sarkozio cum Dalai Lama conveniente
Chinese hackers (information pirates) brought a cyber attack to the French Embassy with Nicolas Sarkozio meeting with the Dalai Lama.

(Comment: Would convento be better than conveniente? I ask because in the linked story, clearly the attacks came after the meeting i.e. “N.S. having met with D.L., Chinese hackers…” rather than the present participle which, to me at least, implies concurrent-ness.)


If the attacks come after the meeting, then you are correct. In that case you'd also move the "convento" phrase to the beginning of the sentence, because Latin sentences generally follow chronological order.

Si revera impetum post conventum accidit, vere admones. comma igitur "convento" priore in parte sententiae movenda est, quia sententiae Latinae generatim ordinem chronologicum sequuntur.

Dummodo Irania jam facultatem habuerit uranii locupletandi, fieri potest Praesidentem Iranianum Ahmadinejad minas terrae Israelianae "delendae" quas prius clamavit exsequi. Tali casu responsum nucleare ab America conjectum esset in Iraniam, ait membrum manipuli transitionis Obamae.
If Iran might now have the ability to enrich , Iranian President Ahmadinejad is able to carry out threats for Israeli land to be destroyed which he previously claimed (promised?) to accomplish. In such a case a nuclear response from America would be launched into Iran, a member of the Obama transition team said.

(Comment/question: The bolded part, although I know what it is trying to say, completely baffles me in its construction. What is the subject of potest?)


Literally: "It is possible to happen that Iranian President Ahmadinejad will follow [through with] [his] threats, which he earlier proclaimed, of destroying the country of Israel."

Unless I'm missing something, I think it should actually read "minas terram Israelianam 'delendae,'" because it is "threats of destroying the Israelian country," and the 'country of Israel' is the object of "delendae." And it would probably be easier to just substitute "Israelem" for the noun+adjective."

Nisi aliquid praetereo, arbitror sententiam ita scribendam esse: "minas terram Israelianam 'delendae,'" quia "terra Israeliana" est obiectum "delendae." Fortasse "Israelem" etiam pro "terram israelianam" lectu simplicior foret.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby Interaxus » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:05 am

Thesaurus:

Now I may be out of my depth but my grammar book says:

"The gerundive modifying a noun has the same meaning as the gerund with a direct object, but the gerundive construction is preferable when the gerund, if used, would have a direct object."

Which would seem to suggest that Luci sentence might stand as is, wouldn't it...?

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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby thesaurus » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:04 am

Interaxus wrote:Thesaurus:

Now I may be out of my depth but my grammar book says:

"The gerundive modifying a noun has the same meaning as the gerund with a direct object, but the gerundive construction is preferable when the gerund, if used, would have a direct object."

Which would seem to suggest that Luci sentence might stand as is, wouldn't it...?

Cheers,
Int


Right, as usual, Interaxus. Thank you for pointing this out for me. I've always been a bit hazy on how this construction works, so thank you for forcing me to read more about it.

This is the "gerundive attraction" phenomenon, no? I remember not really registering that when it was taught...
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Translating Lucus Eques' reports

Postby Lucus Eques » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:00 pm

Wow! I'm flattered you all took such an interest. I'll have to return to making these news reports soon; let us pray I shall have the time!

First of all: in the interest of time, I made numerous small errors in my Latin due to carelessness in my haste to produce daily reports. They often make me shudder when I catch them. Keep this in mind, so that you don't have to turn your brains inside out to justify my mistakes! heh. Moreover, I'm sure numerous more classical choices are available for much of my writings; and I am most open to hear your thoughts therewith!

"Novum Eboracum vectigalia plurima imponere in animo est Gubernatori Patersono nuntiat New York Daily News.”

This should have been "in animo ESSE," or there should have been a comma before "nuntiat." I realized the error after I had made the recording, which would have had to have been redone.

However, by leaving "Novum Eboracum" in the accusative, I intended to say, "Governer Paterson has in mind that New York [should] impose lots of taxes," taking advantage of the historical infinitive for simplicity/journalese. I agree that the dative case makes sense for "to impose on New York."


Bushi administratio respondebit pecunia ejusdem servationis argentariae pro Wall Street utens ad "Magnos Tres" curruum venditores adjuvandos.

What is servationis argentaria? I'm thinking reserve bank? or perhaps the treasury department? or is it a reference to TARP? "The Bush administration will respond (that) the same (TARP/treasury/reserve bank) money for Wall Street will be used to help the "big three" auto sellers.

Am I right to translate utens contemporaneously with respondebit , i.e. "will be used"? Or should it be translated in the present tense, i.e. "is being used"?


I meant "servatio argentaria" to mean "bailout."

And in translation, I would say, "The Bush administration will respond using money of the same Wall Street bailout for helping the Big Three car companies."

Dummodo Irania jam facultatem habuerit uranii locupletandi, fieri potest Praesidentem Iranianum Ahmadinejad minas terrae Israelianae "delendae" quas prius clamavit exsequi. Tali casu responsum nucleare ab America conjectum esset in Iraniam, ait membrum manipuli transitionis Obamae.
If Iran might now have the ability to enrich , Iranian President Ahmadinejad is able to carry out threats for Israeli land to be destroyed which he previously claimed (promised?) to accomplish. In such a case a nuclear response from America would be launched into Iran, a member of the Obama transition team said.

(Comment/question: The bolded part, although I know what it is trying to say, completely baffles me in its construction. What is the subject of potest?)


The subject of potest is merely "it," which remains unstated. The idiom "fieri potest" means "it's possible."

So: "Provided that Iran already has the ability to enrich uranium, it's possible that the Iranian President Ahmadinehad will carry out his threats that the land of Israel should be erased, which he has previously declared."

Jeez, I sure sound more like I'm editorializing than reporting the straight news when I put it in English! Heh heh...

Unless I'm missing something, I think it should actually read "minas terram Israelianam 'delendae,'" because it is "threats of destroying the Israelian country," and the 'country of Israel' is the object of "delendae." And it would probably be easier to just substitute "Israelem" for the noun+adjective."


That wouldn't work, since the gerundive acts as an adjective, and has to concord with the thing "to be destroyed."

I hope to resume recordings of the news in May, when time becomes more available. And so many interesting news stories! to the Tea Parties to Pirates, all so much more wonderful in Latin. Till then, valete!
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