Textkit Logo

Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

This board is a composition workshop, like a writers' workshop: post your work with questions about style or vocabulary, comment on other people's work, post composition challenges on some topic or form, or just dazzle us with your inventive use of galliambics.

Moderator: annis

Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby persequor » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:35 am

Salvete, amici!

I'm a self-taught Latin teacher at a charter school. Am still learning the basics and could use some help polishing a short Latin composition. (Most of my writing practice has only involved short sentences, and mostly Latin to English, not English to Latin.) The composition is a letter home to parents of my K-4th grade students about using some selections from the audio CD Carmina Popularia, to be in Latin on one side of the page and in English on the other.

Here is the English and the Latin text. Comments to help improve the Latin would be appreciated.

"Dear Elementary Parents:

Greetings from your child’s Latin teacher! Among the best aids to learning a foreign language is music. We have already learned several familiar songs in Latin. Shortly before the Christmas holiday, for instance, we learned several Christmas songs and caroled in Latin in the halls of the elementary building. We also learned the Latin versions of two spirituals recently, “If You’re Happy and You Know It” and “This Little Light of Mine”.

Now we will start learning some additional ones with the aid of a great new Latin audio CD, called Carmina Popularia (Popular Songs). I have made copies of selected songs on a CD so your child can have one to take home and practice with. A copy is with this letter. I encourage you to sing along with your child at home, in the car, or wherever. May you find singing together in Latin to be an enjoyable family activity! I will also be providing copies of the lyrics.

Finally, remember Latin is not dead—it’s eternal!

(my name)
Latin Teacher, (name) Charter School

Carissimi patrēs discipulōrum scholae primae:

Salutatiōnēs magistrō Latinī līberōrum vestrōrum! Inter optima auxilia ad linguam alienam discendam praestat musica. Iam plures carmina familiaria Latinē didicimus. Breviter ante festi Natalis Christi, exempli gratiā, didicimus plures carmina Natalis Christi et cantavimus Latinē aulīs aedificium primum. Etiam versionum Latinē duōrum hymnōrum spiritualium recenter didicimus, “If You’re Happy and You Know It” and “This Little Light of Mine”, id est, “Si Hodie Es Felix” et “Hanc Lucillam Meam”.

Nunc incipiēmus aliquae carmina addititia discere auxiliō magnī discī confertī soniti Latinē novi, nōmine Carmina Popularia. Transcrīpsi carmina selecta discō confertō ob fīlium aut fīliam vestra ūnum possint habere domō portare pro exercere. Exemplum discī cum hāc litterā est. Hortor vōs concinere cum fīliō aut fīliā vestra domō, carrō, aut quacumque. Utinam comperiant cantare Latinē actionem dē familiā amoenam esse! Etiam exempla lyricōrum parabō.

Denique, memorāte: Latinum nōn mortuum est, est aeternum!

(nomen mihi)
Magister Latinī, Scholā Chartae (nomen)

Multas gratias,
Persequor
Last edited by persequor on Sun May 10, 2009 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
User avatar
persequor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:25 pm
Location: Arkansas, USA

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby persequor » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:40 am

Of course, I want the English to be good also. I realized just now I wanted the sentence about the lyrics to read "I will also provide copies of the lyrics".

Persequor
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
User avatar
persequor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:25 pm
Location: Arkansas, USA

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby nov.ialiste » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:54 am

I notice that some of the long vowels are marked with macrons while some are not.

Do you want to mark all for the sake of consistency?
phpbb
nov.ialiste
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:56 pm

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby persequor » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:49 pm

Yes, it would be best to be consistent with macrons. Unfortunately, some of the sources I used don't use macrons (software packages Latin Assistant for Windows and LatinWORDS for Mac, based on Whitaker's WORDS database, as well as the NeoLatin wordlist Adumbratio lexici neo-latini, online at http://facweb.furman.edu/~dmorgan/lexicon/silva.htm). I have only learned the case endings for the 1st and 2nd declensions so far (am working to learn the other declensions), so as yet I don't always know which words would use macrons.

Would you mind pointing out which words should have them? :?:

Gratias tibi ago,
Persequor 8)
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
User avatar
persequor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:25 pm
Location: Arkansas, USA

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby nov.ialiste » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:38 am

persequor wrote:Would you mind pointing out which words should have them? :?:

I shall post tomorrow those which I know need macrons after checking your text.
phpbb
nov.ialiste
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:56 pm

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby persequor » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:39 am

I look forward to seeing your suggestions.

Persequor
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
User avatar
persequor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:25 pm
Location: Arkansas, USA

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby nov.ialiste » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:09 pm

persequor wrote:I look forward to seeing your suggestions.

Persequor

Below I have added macrons where I believe they are needed. My main source of information was the Lewis & Short online dictionary here:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059

Cārissimī patrēs discipulōrum scholae prīmae:

Salūtātiōnēs magistrō Latīnī līberōrum vestrōrum! Inter optima auxilia ad linguam aliēnam discendam praestat mūsica. Iam plūrēs carmina familiāria Latīnē didicimus. Breviter ante festī Nātālis Christī, exemplī grātiā, didicimus plūrēs carmina Nātālis Christī et cantāvimus Latīnē aulīs aedificium prīmum. Etiam versiōnum Latīnē duōrum hymnōrum spīrituālium recenter didicimus, “If You’re Happy and You Know It” and “This Little Light of Mine”, id est, “Sī Hodiē Es Fēlix” et “Hanc Lucillam Meam”.

Nunc incipiēmus aliquae carmina addititia discēre auxiliō magnī discī cōnfertī sonitī Latīnē novī, nōmine Carmina Populāria. Transcrīpsī carmina selecta discō cōnfertō ob fīlium aut fīliam vestra ūnum possint habēre domō portāre prō exercēre. Exemplum discī cum hāc litterā est. Hortor vōs concinere cum fīliō aut fīliā vestra domō, carrō, aut quācumquē. Utinam comperiant cantāre Latīnē actiōnem dē familiā amoenam esse! Etiam exempla lyricōrum parābō.

Dēniquē, memorāte: Latīnum nōn mortuum est, est aeternum!

Dewayne Dulaney
Magister Latīnī, Scholā Chartae Disciplinās Plus

Multās grātiās, Persequor


I won't attempt to critique the Latin as I am still a beginner myself (I studied two thirds of D'Ooge and at present I am up to Chapter 20 of Lingua Latina by Ørberg).

One point, though: I think "cum hāc litterā" means "with this letter of the alphabet".

Letter, as in missive, is plural: "litterae" rather than "littera". Or perhaps epistula could be used.

I feel that learning the correct vowel lengths is very important: it often helps place the stress on the correct syllable plus it provides more authentic pronunciation. In particular, note that "Latīna" has a long "i".

I hope this helps.

In order to learn the lengths properly, I am transcribing the whole of the book Lingua Latina. This helps consolidate my learning in general and indeed helps me remember the vowel lengths more reliably.

Could I ask what exactly "charter school" means? I am from the UK (I live in Finland now) and I am not very familiar with the U.S. school system and terminology.

It is very nice to see that at least some schoolchildren still get the chance to study Latin at school. What age groups are your students? (Tell me ages, as I don't know the grade system.)

I hope some of our experts here will check the text for you.
phpbb
nov.ialiste
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:56 pm

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby nov.ialiste » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:52 pm

According to this source:
http://web.comhem.se/alatius/latin/quantity.html
the final "e" of dēnĭquĕ is short:

A Latin Dictionary, Lewis and Short

The following words are erroneously marked with long final e.

dēnĭquĕ, diffĭcĭlĕ, exindĕ, fĭdēlĕ, fortassĕ, fortĕ, futtĭlĕ, hūcĭnĕ, impūnĕ, măgĕ, magnŏpĕrĕ, mĕmŏrĕ, neutĭquĕ, perfăcĭlĕ, pĕrŭbīquĕ, plērumquĕ, prŏindĕ, quācumquĕ, quālĭtercumquĕ, quandōcumquĕ, quandōquĕ, quantŏpĕrĕ, quantŭlumcumquĕ (sub verbo quantŭluscumque), quāquĕ, quŏusquĕ, rĕpentĕ, segnĕ, sīcĭnĕ, sīcundĕ, sŭpernĕ, tĕmĕrĕ, tempŏrĕ (s.v. tempus), tētĕ, ŭbīquāquĕ, ŭbīquĕ
phpbb
nov.ialiste
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:56 pm

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby thesaurus » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:24 pm

persequor wrote:Carissimi patrēs discipulōrum scholae primae:

Salutatiōnēs magistrō Latinī līberōrum vestrōrum! Inter optima auxilia ad linguam alienam discendam praestat musica. Iam plures carmina familiaria Latinē didicimus. Breviter ante festi Natalis Christi, exempli gratiā, didicimus plures carmina Natalis Christi et cantavimus Latinē aulīs aedificium primum. Etiam versionum Latinē duōrum hymnōrum spiritualium recenter didicimus, “If You’re Happy and You Know It” and “This Little Light of Mine”, id est, “Si Hodie Es Felix” et “Hanc Lucillam Meam”.

Nunc incipiēmus aliquae carmina addititia discere auxiliō magnī discī confertī soniti Latinē novi, nōmine Carmina Popularia. Transcrīpsi carmina selecta discō confertō ob fīlium aut fīliam vestra ūnum possint habere domō portare pro exercere. Exemplum discī cum hāc litterā est. Hortor vōs concinere cum fīliō aut fīliā vestra domō, carrō, aut quacumque. Utinam comperiant cantare Latinē actionem dē familiā amoenam esse! Etiam exempla lyricōrum parabō.

Denique, memorāte: Latinum nōn mortuum est, est aeternum!

Dewayne Dulaney
Magister Latinī, Scholā Chartae Disciplinās Plus

Multas gratias,
Persequor


Some thoughts:

If you want to maintain the Roman way of writing letters, you could have "Magister Latini liberorum vestrorum vobis patribus carissimis salutationes plurimas dat."

"plures carmina" would this be "pluria" because it's a neuter plural?

"ante festi Natalis Christi": wouldn't "ante" work as a preposition here and be "ante festa Natalis Christi"?

"cantavimus Latinē aulīs aedificium primum": is there a reason for the acc. here? Perhaps "primorum aedificiorum."

"Etiam versionum Latinē duōrum hymnōrum spiritualium recenter didicimus, “If You’re Happy and You Know It” and “This Little Light of Mine”, id est, “Si Hodie Es Felix” et “Hanc Lucillam Meam”: Is there an object for didicimus? Perhaps "versiones Latine duas hymnorum spiritualium recenter didicimus." Or are the song titles the objects? That might be a little confusing, because it requires you to change the case of the song title, "Haec Lucilla Mea."

"aliquae carmina addititia": "alia" might be a more expected substitute for "addititia."

"Transcrīpsi carmina selecta discō confertō ob fīlium aut fīliam vestra ūnum possint habere domō portare pro exercere." A few issues here. Instead of "ob" the purpose clause here calls for an "ut." A pair of things can be paired with the enclitic "-ve" like "que". Because you're talking about one son or daughter, the verb needs to be singular (possit). To take home just required "domum," which uses the accusative for direction to, like "it Romam." Instead of using "unum" to refer to CD, I am referring to the songs themselves, because I understand that to be the real goal. So I have: "Carmina selecta disco conferto transcripsi ut filius filiave vester ea domum ferre et eis se exercere possit." If you want to keep the CD as object, you could do "... vester eum ferre domum et eo se exercere." I find "se exercere" to have the meaning of "to practice (one's self)."

"Exemplum discī cum hāc litterā est": as noted, use the plural of Littera for "a letter" or epistula.

"Hortor vōs concinere cum fīliō aut fīliā vestra domō, carrō, aut quacumque.": "At home" is rendered by "domi," which is peculiar to this word like "domum" above. Thus "Hortor vos cum filio filiave vestro domi concinere."

"Utinam comperiant cantare Latinē actionem dē familiā amoenam esse!": I'm not sure how to best render "an enjoyable family activity" in Latin. Perhaps "Utinam comperiant cantare Latine actionem familiis amoenam esse!" with family here as a dative of respect.

Otherwise, your letter looks very good. I hope these suggestions seem good to you. I'm sure others (Adrianus?) have suggestions, too.

It's impressive to see a self-taught Latin teacher, so keep up the good work!
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
thesaurus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 989
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:44 pm

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby persequor » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:11 am

Thesaurus and nov.laliste,

Thanks so much for your help! Just wanted to let you know I have read your posts and am digesting them. Will be back with you in a day or two, hopefully. In case I forgot to mention it earlier, the first 8 chapters of Wheelock are the only systematic Latin grammar study I've done. That, however, was several years ago, before I started teaching Latin.

Am now in process of reviewing these and plan to go on to finish Wheelock and others as I have time. Have also dipped a little into D'Ooge and am using various web sources such as the St. Louis Univ. site, Vicipaedia, etc.

It's very encouraging to have fellow-teachers/learners who take the time to help a newbie (novus discipulus?) like myself.

Valete,
Persequor
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
User avatar
persequor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:25 pm
Location: Arkansas, USA

Re: Help with Letter Home to Parents of Latin Students

Postby persequor » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:09 am

Well, it's more like two weeks-sigh. Anyway, the final draft of the letter is finished. Thesaurus, I adopted most of your suggested changes, and will post a copy of the final draft next time. Nov.ialiste, I regret that the macrons had to go because the font I decided on for the letter, Tempus ITC (similar to Papyrus, but wider) does not display them. I could have used Arial or Times New Roman, which do display macrons, but wanted to use something more interesting visually. Thanks for your help, anyway, and I'll save a copy of the text with the macrons for my own study.

Pax vobiscum,
Persequor
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
User avatar
persequor
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:25 pm
Location: Arkansas, USA


Return to Composition Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests