reading Greek

Here you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Greek, and more.
Post Reply
Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan

reading Greek

Post by Junya »

I couldn't understand this passage, taking two hours. Please show the right reading. I am a beginner in reading Greek, but usually I can read this book without getting stucked.

eti po^s homales estai to pho^s en to^i aeri, mono^n to^n poro^n echonto^n auto, ei ge, entha men esti to pho^s, touto pepho^tistai (touto d' eisin hoi poroi), entha de ho ae^r e^ allo ti to^n diaphano^n so^ma, me^ pepho^tistai.

homale^s = adj. even, level, equal, alike, homogenious
pho^s = n. light
ae^r = n. air
poros = n. passage (the air has passage ways that let the light pass though it)
entha = adv. there / where / when
pepho^tistal = pho^tizo^ (shine, emit light)
diaphane^s = adj. transparent

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Re: reading Greek

Post by modus.irrealis »

I understand it as:

Besides, how will the light be homogeneous in the air when only the passages contain it, if indeed, there where the light is, that is illuminated (and that is the passages), and there where the air or some other of the transparent bodies is, it is not illuminated?

Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan

Re: reading Greek

Post by Junya »

Hi, modus irrealis. Thank you for your answer.

I read exactly the same as you. But that somehow doesn't make sense. I don't understand my (and your) translation.

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Re: reading Greek

Post by modus.irrealis »

It's hard to say without more context but it seems to me that the author is arguing against the idea that light is only in the passages since if it's only in the passages, it would only illuminate the passages, so how could it then be even throughout the air? (I'm guessing the fact that it is even is taken as true.)

This seems to be an example of where εἰ (ei) is equivalent to "since".

User avatar
IreneY
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:27 am
Location: U.S.A (not American though)
Contact:

Re: reading Greek

Post by IreneY »

Found the passage :)
It's from Alexander of Aphrodisias' "On the soul" apparently. I tried to find it in a less... eccentric site but I guess it doesn't matter really :)
http://www.toxolyros.gr/index.php?optio ... Itemid=868 (it's towards the end).
I think modus got it right by the way.

Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan

Re: reading Greek

Post by Junya »

Irene, you are right. Is that site by a Greek person?


Modus irrealis,

the author is listing numbers of questions(difficulties) that arise if one suppose that the light is a corporeal thing. And the passage I posted is one of those questions.


My interpretation was the same as yours, but I don't understand the logic.

1. I can't believe the light is homogenious in the air

2. because only the passages are illuminated in the air

3. and the reason is also that
3-1. when there is the light, the passage is illuminated

3-2. and when there is merely the air or any other transparent thing (but with no light), the passage is not illuminated

Somehow the logic is imperfect and I can't be convinced by this translation, though it is difficult for me to show where is imperfect. (Of course, I understamnd 1 and 2.)

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Re: reading Greek

Post by modus.irrealis »

What he's saying is: since it's the presence of light that causes something to be illuminated, if light is contained only in the passages, then only the passages will be illuminated, and the other parts (which contain air or other transparent bodies) will not be illuminated, so how can light be homogeneous in the air? That light is homogeneous in the air is being taken as true and he's deriving a contradiction.

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Re: reading Greek

Post by modus.irrealis »

And thanks Irene. My google searches came up with nothing and I just assumed the text wasn't online instead of making sure I had made no mistakes (I had ὀμαλὲς instead of ὁμαλὲς :oops:). Now, I hope Junya doesn't mind if I can ask you a question, but I was reading that site and some others, and I'm wondering: do know if fascist/racist ideals are a core part of such groups, or is it just a small minority that combine those with the religion? And Ομάδα Ε? What's up with that?

Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan

Re: reading Greek

Post by Junya »

Thank you modus irrealis.

I have a book of the original text of Alexander Aphrodisiensis edited by Robert Sharples. (I bought it when I was still not able to read Greek, thinking it was an English translation.) And I typed the passage from the book, romanizing it.

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Re: reading Greek

Post by modus.irrealis »

Oh, the problem was all me and your romanization was perfectly clear. I just got the breathing wrong when I rehellenized (?) "homales".

sophiamoniquesm
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:14 am

Re: reading Greek

Post by sophiamoniquesm »

... Its really so difficult to learn other language :cry:

User avatar
Lex
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 732
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:34 pm
Location: A top-secret underground llama lair.

Re: reading Greek

Post by Lex »

sophiamoniquesm wrote:... Its really so difficult to learn other language :cry:
For me.... yes. :oops:
I, Lex Llama, super genius, will one day rule this planet! And then you'll rue the day you messed with me, you damned dirty apes!

Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan

Re: reading Greek

Post by Junya »

Hi. :)

Yes, it is difficult to learn, especially to build up the vocabulary. I have a very poor vocabulary (I don't know why but I keep avoiding vocabulary-building study), so I'm always consulting dictionary. And consulting dictionaries is physically laborsome and harmful to health, however you keep inventing the ways to reduce the stress of the labor. So the amount I can read is very limited. Even in reading English, I am still like that (I'm Japanese).

User avatar
IreneY
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:27 am
Location: U.S.A (not American though)
Contact:

Re: reading Greek

Post by IreneY »

Well, you are doing a good job really! Keep it up and you'll get there . We're here to help anyway.

Modus, I don't think so but I don't really know. I've seen a documentary with some of these guys who seemed quite harmless really. Many however are also nationalists. Some go all the way to fascism. This site didn't seem of the kind. As form Epsilon, these guys are nuts! And horrible and risible. Check this for instance

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Re: reading Greek

Post by modus.irrealis »

ΝΟΜΙΖΕΤΕ ΟΤΙ ΑΠΟΦΑΣΙΖΕΤΕ ΓΙΑ ΤΟ ΜΕΛΛΟΝ ΣΑΣ;
ΠΟΙΟΙ ΜΑΣ ΚΡΑΤΑΝΕ ΚΟΙΜΙΣΜΕΝΟΥΣ;
ΓΙΑΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΠΩΣ ΖΟΥΝΕ ΑΝΑΜΕΣΑ ΜΑΣ;

Sorry, I know this is not the place for this, but I just wasted way too much time "researching" this group on youtube and it's great -- I used to love this kind of stuff and this group has everything. If they're on tv though, I really hope there's a drinking game :lol:!

User avatar
IreneY
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:27 am
Location: U.S.A (not American though)
Contact:

Re: reading Greek

Post by IreneY »

You started it (nice excuse huh? :D ) Liakopoulos is great isn't he? The best antidote for bad mood I can see why you spent a lot of time "researching" them. Your brain goes "This can't be true! He just can't be serious!" :D

Post Reply