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reading Greek

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reading Greek

Postby Junya » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:48 am

I couldn't understand this passage, taking two hours. Please show the right reading. I am a beginner in reading Greek, but usually I can read this book without getting stucked.

eti po^s homales estai to pho^s en to^i aeri, mono^n to^n poro^n echonto^n auto, ei ge, entha men esti to pho^s, touto pepho^tistai (touto d' eisin hoi poroi), entha de ho ae^r e^ allo ti to^n diaphano^n so^ma, me^ pepho^tistai.

homale^s = adj. even, level, equal, alike, homogenious
pho^s = n. light
ae^r = n. air
poros = n. passage (the air has passage ways that let the light pass though it)
entha = adv. there / where / when
pepho^tistal = pho^tizo^ (shine, emit light)
diaphane^s = adj. transparent
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Re: reading Greek

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:00 pm

I understand it as:

Besides, how will the light be homogeneous in the air when only the passages contain it, if indeed, there where the light is, that is illuminated (and that is the passages), and there where the air or some other of the transparent bodies is, it is not illuminated?
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Re: reading Greek

Postby Junya » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:15 pm

Hi, modus irrealis. Thank you for your answer.

I read exactly the same as you. But that somehow doesn't make sense. I don't understand my (and your) translation.
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Re: reading Greek

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:30 pm

It's hard to say without more context but it seems to me that the author is arguing against the idea that light is only in the passages since if it's only in the passages, it would only illuminate the passages, so how could it then be even throughout the air? (I'm guessing the fact that it is even is taken as true.)

This seems to be an example of where εἰ (ei) is equivalent to "since".
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Re: reading Greek

Postby IreneY » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:37 pm

Found the passage :)
It's from Alexander of Aphrodisias' "On the soul" apparently. I tried to find it in a less... eccentric site but I guess it doesn't matter really :)
http://www.toxolyros.gr/index.php?optio ... Itemid=868 (it's towards the end).
I think modus got it right by the way.
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Re: reading Greek

Postby Junya » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:10 am

Irene, you are right. Is that site by a Greek person?


Modus irrealis,

the author is listing numbers of questions(difficulties) that arise if one suppose that the light is a corporeal thing. And the passage I posted is one of those questions.


My interpretation was the same as yours, but I don't understand the logic.

1. I can't believe the light is homogenious in the air

2. because only the passages are illuminated in the air

3. and the reason is also that
3-1. when there is the light, the passage is illuminated

3-2. and when there is merely the air or any other transparent thing (but with no light), the passage is not illuminated

Somehow the logic is imperfect and I can't be convinced by this translation, though it is difficult for me to show where is imperfect. (Of course, I understamnd 1 and 2.)
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Re: reading Greek

Postby modus.irrealis » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:55 pm

What he's saying is: since it's the presence of light that causes something to be illuminated, if light is contained only in the passages, then only the passages will be illuminated, and the other parts (which contain air or other transparent bodies) will not be illuminated, so how can light be homogeneous in the air? That light is homogeneous in the air is being taken as true and he's deriving a contradiction.
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Re: reading Greek

Postby modus.irrealis » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:48 pm

And thanks Irene. My google searches came up with nothing and I just assumed the text wasn't online instead of making sure I had made no mistakes (I had ὀμαλὲς instead of ὁμαλὲς :oops:). Now, I hope Junya doesn't mind if I can ask you a question, but I was reading that site and some others, and I'm wondering: do know if fascist/racist ideals are a core part of such groups, or is it just a small minority that combine those with the religion? And Ομάδα Ε? What's up with that?
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Re: reading Greek

Postby Junya » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Thank you modus irrealis.

I have a book of the original text of Alexander Aphrodisiensis edited by Robert Sharples. (I bought it when I was still not able to read Greek, thinking it was an English translation.) And I typed the passage from the book, romanizing it.
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Re: reading Greek

Postby modus.irrealis » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:37 pm

Oh, the problem was all me and your romanization was perfectly clear. I just got the breathing wrong when I rehellenized (?) "homales".
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Re: reading Greek

Postby sophiamoniquesm » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:31 am

... Its really so difficult to learn other language :cry:
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Re: reading Greek

Postby Lex » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:36 am

sophiamoniquesm wrote:... Its really so difficult to learn other language :cry:


For me.... yes. :oops:
I, Lex Llama, super genius, will one day rule this planet! And then you'll rue the day you messed with me, you damned dirty apes!
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Re: reading Greek

Postby Junya » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:20 am

Hi. :)

Yes, it is difficult to learn, especially to build up the vocabulary. I have a very poor vocabulary (I don't know why but I keep avoiding vocabulary-building study), so I'm always consulting dictionary. And consulting dictionaries is physically laborsome and harmful to health, however you keep inventing the ways to reduce the stress of the labor. So the amount I can read is very limited. Even in reading English, I am still like that (I'm Japanese).
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Re: reading Greek

Postby IreneY » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:06 pm

Well, you are doing a good job really! Keep it up and you'll get there . We're here to help anyway.

Modus, I don't think so but I don't really know. I've seen a documentary with some of these guys who seemed quite harmless really. Many however are also nationalists. Some go all the way to fascism. This site didn't seem of the kind. As form Epsilon, these guys are nuts! And horrible and risible. Check this for instance
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Re: reading Greek

Postby modus.irrealis » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:54 am

ΝΟΜΙΖΕΤΕ ΟΤΙ ΑΠΟΦΑΣΙΖΕΤΕ ΓΙΑ ΤΟ ΜΕΛΛΟΝ ΣΑΣ;
ΠΟΙΟΙ ΜΑΣ ΚΡΑΤΑΝΕ ΚΟΙΜΙΣΜΕΝΟΥΣ;
ΓΙΑΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΠΩΣ ΖΟΥΝΕ ΑΝΑΜΕΣΑ ΜΑΣ;

Sorry, I know this is not the place for this, but I just wasted way too much time "researching" this group on youtube and it's great -- I used to love this kind of stuff and this group has everything. If they're on tv though, I really hope there's a drinking game :lol:!
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Re: reading Greek

Postby IreneY » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:48 am

You started it (nice excuse huh? :D ) Liakopoulos is great isn't he? The best antidote for bad mood I can see why you spent a lot of time "researching" them. Your brain goes "This can't be true! He just can't be serious!" :D
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