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first declension practice

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first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:00 pm

καλὴ βουλή
καλῆς βουλῆς
καλῇ βουλῇ
καλὴν βουλήν
καλὴ βουλή

καλὰ βουλά
καλῇιν βουλῇιν
καλῇιν βουλῇιν
καλὰ βουλά
καλὰ βουλά

καλαὶ βουλαί
καλάων βουλάων
καλῇσι βουλῇσι
καλὰς βουλάς
καλαὶ βουλαί

==========

κλαγγή
κλαγγῆς
κλαγγῇ
κλαγγήν
κλαγγή

κλαγγά
κλαγγῇιν
κλαγγῇιν
κλαγγά
κλαγγά

κλαγγαί
κλαγγάων
κλαγγῇσι
κλαγγάς
κλαγγαί

==========

How's it look? Got a question about it, too. I notice that the contracted -ῶν and uncontracted -έων are alternative endings for the genitive plural. How common are each of the endings? Do we need to learn them all? What about the alternative -ῇς ending for the dative plural?

Thanks,
ΙΑΣΩΝ
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:25 pm

For those in our study group, I think it might be worthwhile to point out the interesting connection between the dative forms. Notice that all of them have ῃ in the termination.

(singular) δειν > (dual) δεινιν > (plural) δεινσι

From there, it's easy to remember that the dual adds -ιν while the plural adds -σι.

Feel free to post your experiments and exercises with the declension formation here. This all starts in Lesson III.

ΙΑΣΩΝ
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby Lex » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:38 pm

I didn't see any problems with your conjugations.

Pharr mentions in note 6 to section 648 that "Forms in square brackets [ ] are rare, and need not be memorized".

Section 652 explains the use of the alternate dative plural forms. They both definitely should be memorized.
Last edited by Lex on Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:42 pm

Thanks. :)
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby annis » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:56 am

jaihare wrote:For those in our study group, I think it might be worthwhile to point out the interesting connection between the dative forms. Notice that all of them have ῃ in the termination.

(singular) δειν > (dual) δεινιν > (plural) δεινσι


Ooh. For the dual the dative and genitive forms are identical. I wouldn't read too much into that similarity. And one major recent edition of the Iliad (West's Teubner), on the basis of epigraphic evidence, spells the plural dative without the iota subscript, -ησι.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Re: first declension practice

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:33 am

I didn't understand as well the book order, the "lesson I" is just an introduction?
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:30 pm

Ivansalgadogarcia wrote:I didn't understand as well the book order, the "lesson I" is just an introduction?

Yes, Lesson I is called "Introductory." The first assignment in the book (§1) is to learn the alphabet and its sounds. Pharr gives the Erasmian pronunciation. A presentation of the reconstructed pronunciation can be found here. I don't know if people think there is a need to learn one way or the other, but it's good to have both options. I think, as long as you can read it and make sense of it (no matter the pronunciation), that's good. I'll let others comment other ways.

However, for this thread, we're practicing the first noun declension, which begins in Lesson III (§8). Lay it out for us!! :)

ΙΑΣΩΝ
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:34 pm

φίλη
φίλης
φίλῃ
φίλην
φίλη

φίλα
φίλῃιν
φίλῃιν
φίλα
φίλα

φίλαι
φιλάων
φίλῃς / φίλῃσι
φίλας
φίλαι
Last edited by jaihare on Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:49 am

Iván, where is your practice?!? :)
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:45 am

δεινὴ κλαγγή
δεινῆς κλαγγῆς
δεινῇ κλαγγῇ
δεινὴν κλαγγήν
δείνὴ κλαγγἠ

δεινὰ κλαγγά
δεινῇιν κλαγγῇιν
δεινῇιν κλαγγῇιν
δεινὰ κλαγγά
δεινὰ κλαγγά

δειναὶ κλαγγαί
δεινῶν κλαγγῶν
δεινῇσι κλαγγῇσι
δεινὰς κλαγγάς
δειναὶ κλαγγαί

The contracted form of the genitive plural it's very frequent, I've read it in Hesiod maybe twice in the first lines. :) , however, I didn't realized that plural dative was almost the same in the masculine and feminine.
Last edited by Ivansalgadogarcia on Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:46 am

Ivansalgadogarcia wrote:δεινὴ κλαγγή
δεινῆς κλαγγῆς
δεινῇ κλαγγῇ
δεινὴν κλαγγήν
δείνὴ** κλαγγἠ

δεινὰ κλαγγά
δεινῇιν κλαγγῇιν
δεινῇιν κλαγγῇιν
δεινὰ κλαγγά
δεινά** κλαγγά

δειναὶ κλαγγαί
δεινῶν κλαγγῶν
δεινῇσι κλαγγῇσι
δεινὰς κλαγγάς
δειναί** κλαγγαί

** Notice the accent on the indicated forms.
Welcome to the practice! Isn't it fun!?! :)

The contracted form of the genitive plural it's very frequent, I've read it in Hesiod maybe twice in the first lines. :) , however, I didn't realized that plural dative was almost the same in the masculine and feminine.

Do you mean in the first and second declensions?

I'm used to the Koine, so I don't know the dative plural ending yet. I think of it as -αις in the first declension and -οις in the second. Now I'm learning -ῃσι and -ῃς for the first declension. I haven't looked at the second declension forms yet. I've just started looking at the present tense verb in -ω, adding the dual forms (-ετον) to my memory. I'm used to the others, since they are identical to those of the Koine. :)
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:55 pm

Thanks for the observations on accents!! :lol: What about the masculines of the first declension?

αἰχμητής
αἰχμητᾶω
αἰχμητῇ
αἰχμητήν
αἰχμητά

αἰχμητά
αἰχμητῇιν
αἰχμητῇιν
αἰχμητά
αἰχμητά

αἰχμηταί
αἰχμητάων
αἰχμητῇσι, -ῇς
αἰχμητάς
αἰχμηταἰ

It's so similar to Koiné, except by the plural dative, form that now I recognize, hehehe 8), paragraph 675 on book is very interesting about the vocatives, however, this form is easy to recognize by context.

Where is everybody? Let's practice. :)
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:22 pm

ἀδελφέ μου, I've been here everyday (throughout the day, whenever I get time), and I don't see posts from you. ;)

I'm also pleased by the similarity (thus far) to the Koine. On my own, I've been working slowly (yet excitedly), and I did section 22 today. I want to make up some vocab cards to carry with me as I go. In the meantime, I'm also making up a paradigm spreadsheet with noun declensions and verb conjugations as we go along. Hopefully I'll keep that up. It may be really useful in the future.

Regards,
ΙΑΣΩΝ
(I put it in all caps 'cause it looks better. Ἰάσων just doesn't have the aesthetic appeal that ΙΑΣΩΝ has!)
Last edited by jaihare on Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby annis » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:30 pm

jaihare wrote:(I put it in all caps 'cause it looks better. Ἰασών just doesn't have the aesthetic appeal that ΙΑΣΩΝ has!)


Tsk, tsk. You're a budding Homerist now — spell it Ἰήσων. ;)
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Re: first declension practice

Postby annis » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:36 pm

Also, obscure grammatical point —

jaihare wrote:ἀδελφέ μου,


The vocative of ἀδελφός is accented irregularly:  ἄδελφε.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:49 pm

annis wrote:
jaihare wrote:(I put it in all caps 'cause it looks better. Ἰασών just doesn't have the aesthetic appeal that ΙΑΣΩΝ has!)


Tsk, tsk. You're a budding Homerist now — spell it Ἰήσων. ;)

Really?!?!
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:51 pm

annis wrote:Also, obscure grammatical point —

jaihare wrote:ἀδελφέ μου,


The vocative of ἀδελφός is accented irregularly:  ἄδελφε.

:? Crap.

Does it still grab the proclitic accent? ἄδελφέ μου?
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:54 pm

annis wrote:
jaihare wrote:(I put it in all caps 'cause it looks better. Ἰασών just doesn't have the aesthetic appeal that ΙΑΣΩΝ has!)


Tsk, tsk. You're a budding Homerist now — spell it Ἰήσων. ;)


I accented it incorrectly in the first place anyway. It also is acute on the alpha. Either way, it surprises me that it is written with eta in Homer. Kinda thrilling, really. :)
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby annis » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:34 pm

jaihare wrote:Does it still grab the proclitic accent? ἄδελφέ μου?


Enclitic, and yes.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:36 pm

annis wrote:
jaihare wrote:Does it still grab the proclitic accent? ἄδελφέ μου?


Enclitic, and yes.

I really need to read better! I can't wait til the book gets here and I can actually sit with it and pay better attention. This is hard to do with a PDF!
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:54 pm

annis wrote:
jaihare wrote:Does it still grab the proclitic accent? ἄδελφέ μου?


Enclitic, and yes.


I know it's kinda getting ahead of ourselves, but I'm just wondering if the same forms exist for words like ἡμεῖς/ὑμεῖς and ἡμῶν/ὑμῶν in Epic as in the Koine?

Thanks,
ΙΗΣΩΝ
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:10 pm

ΑΓΛΑΟΣ, -Η, -ΟΝ, bright, shining, splendid, glorious

ἀγλαή
ἀγλαῆς
ἀγλαῇ
ἀγλαήν
ἀγλαή

ἀγλαά
ἀγλαῇιν
ἀγλαῇιν
ἀγλαά
ἀγλαά

ἀγλααί
ἀγλαάων
ἀγλαῇσι
ἀγλαάς
ἀγλααί

Any mistakes?
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby jaihare » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:10 pm

Shaking with anticipation... both for the arrival of my new book (yea!!) and for the start of this study.

I keep getting returned e-mails from the Pharr-e list. Why is that? I sent two and I've gotten like four rejection notices. Should we not be able to test the mail server already?
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: first declension practice

Postby MiguelM » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:24 pm

jaihare wrote:Shaking with anticipation... both for the arrival of my new book (yea!!) and for the start of this study.

I keep getting returned e-mails from the Pharr-e list. Why is that? I sent two and I've gotten like four rejection notices. Should we not be able to test the mail server already?


I don't know if the list is working properly yet. I was waiting for some sign of life myself.
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