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38 Latin Stories Page 74 Chapter 39 Help

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38 Latin Stories Page 74 Chapter 39 Help

Postby tater2021 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:10 pm

I am translating Cicero Evaluates Two Famous Roman Orators and I cannot figure it out with all the gerunds and gerundives. Can anyone help me with a translation. Thanks
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Re: 38 Latin Stories Page 74 Chapter 39 Help

Postby modus.irrealis » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:03 pm

I don't think a lot of people here have that book, so if you could post the sentences you need help with, it'd be easier to help you out.
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Re: 38 Latin Stories Page 74 Chapter 39 Help

Postby ptolemyauletes » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:04 am

I have the book, but it is better if you ask questions on individual sentences.
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Re: 38 Latin Stories Page 74 Chapter 39 Help

Postby Interaxus » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:03 pm

This is the first half of the text:

M. Antonius, quasi imperator copias suas collocans, <Marcus Antonius, like a general deploying his forces>, omnia verba ponebat <marshalled all his words/arguments> in maxime opportunis suae orationis partibus. <in the most opportune places of his speech>. Gestibus non (1) verborum exprimendorum, sed (2) sententiarum illuminandarum causa utebatur. <He used [utor + dat.] gestures not for the sake of stressing words but for the sake of clarifying the sense (his opinions)>. Etsi vox eius subrauca natura <Even if his voice was naturally hoarse>, etiam hoc vitium in bonum convertebatur <even this defect he converted to his advantage>. Habebat enim flebile quiddam <for it had something doleful> aptumque ET (3) ad fidem faciendam ET (4) ad misericordiam movendam <and suitable BOTH for creating confidence AND for exciting compassion>. Oratori (5) animorum flectendorum cupido actionem necesse est, ut Demosthenes ait, in dicendo plurimi aestimare <For the orator desirous of swaying opinions, it is necessary, as Demosthenes says to consider delivery/performance of the greatest worth in (public) speaking>.

5 gerundives (all linked to nouns) and 1 gerund.

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Re: 38 Latin Stories Page 74 Chapter 39 Help

Postby Interaxus » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:01 am

I just came across two gerundives in Leo Latinus’ translation into Latin of a German review of “The Reader” (Kate Winslet’s Oscar film) that closely resemble examples (3) and (4) in our doctored Cicero text.

“Cinema autem libro minus aptum est ad (a) personas introspiciendas (b) earumque cogitationes perlustrandas.”

<Film (as a medium) however is less suitable than a book for examining characters and scrutinizing their thoughts>

For anyone interested, the original German was:

Der Film hat schon des Mediums wegen weniger Möglichkeit zur Introspektion und zu Ausflügen in die Gedankenwelt seiner Figuren.

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