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Validity of expression.

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Validity of expression.

Postby peripatein » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:32 am

Dear Members,

Is the following a valid phrase grammatically/syntactically - kalos kagathos t'anax? Would ancient Greek usually arrange the words differently to express the same notion?

As always, any means of reply would be most appreciated.

Sincerely,
Peripatein.
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peripatein
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Re: Validity of expression.

Postby xanthos64 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:32 am

Hi
To me it looks fine. The phrase looks like a fragment from epic, perhaps translated as "a lord both good and noble". I think Homer used the kai . . . te construction the same way later Greek used the kai . . . kai, or the te . . . te constructions.
Regards,
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Re: Validity of expression.

Postby annis » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:03 pm

peripatein wrote:Is the following a valid phrase grammatically/syntactically - kalos kagathos t'anax? Would ancient Greek usually arrange the words differently to express the same notion?


What are you trying to say and what is the context? I have two problems with this phrase. First, καλὸς κἀγαθός is a classical phrase, but the noun ἄναξ is archaic. I wouldn't expect these to occur together in the same phrase very often, except perhaps in drama. Second, kalos kagathos still has a καί hiding in there. Even if the phrase is practically a single word, the use of καί and τε this way together is like saying "noble and and good." The only time I found τε in the area of the phrase was with καλός τε καὶ ἀγαθός.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re: Validity of expression.

Postby Swth\r » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:10 pm

As far as I know, the parataxis with copulative conjunctions is ...τε και..., and not και... ...τε. And of course it can never be ... και ...τε.
Even more analytically the options are:

καλός καί αγαθός - καλός καγαθός
καλός τε καί αγαθός - καλός τε καγαθός
καί καλός καί αγαθός (more emphatic)
καλός τε αγαθός τε

And never:

καλός τε αγαθός
και καλός αγαθός τε
καλός και αγαθός τε
Dives qui sapiens est...
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