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Si alius...

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Si alius...

Postby galen697 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:45 pm

Something I've been wondering about lately when composing is this.

If Si aliquis is properly written as "si quis" (and the same is true for aliquid), what happens when writing "si alius"? Is that governed by the same rules regarding si, nisi, ni and ne?
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Re: Si alius...

Postby Titus_Larcius » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:49 pm

no.

Remember that the 'ali-' in 'aliquis' is, in fact, an elided form of 'alius'.
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Re: Si alius...

Postby adrianus » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:04 pm

Salve galen697 atque tite_larci
Which of the two, "si quis" or "si aliquis", to write depends on the context. Ainsworth says "si aliquis" is more emphatic. Isn't "si alius" perfectly fine, and unproblematic? What's the alternative? I would say, "Unless another wants that bun, I'll have it."
Utrum amborum, "si quis" an "si aliquis", rectè scribatur ex contextu pendet. Constructionem "si aliquis" plus emphasin quàm "si quis" habere dicit Ainsworth (§310). Nonné "si alius" constructio perbona est, et indubia? Dicam "Nisi alius illud cuppedium vult, id habebo." Quid aliter dicas?
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Si alius...

Postby adrianus » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:24 pm

Also, I think the logic of "unless someone wants it, I'll have it" is flawed, because I myself am someone.
Nisi fallor, perperàm (logicè) dicatur ità, "Nisi aliquis id vult, id habebo", quià ego ipse aliquis sum.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Si alius...

Postby benissimus » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:44 pm

galen697 wrote:Something I've been wondering about lately when composing is this.

If Si aliquis is properly written as "si quis" (and the same is true for aliquid), what happens when writing "si alius"? Is that governed by the same rules regarding si, nisi, ni and ne?

If I remember correctly, the stand-alone quis is the original indefinite, and the ali- is a later addition. The si/num/ne environments bring back a fossilized un-prefixed version of the indefinite. If that is true, then the old ni/nisi/num/ne mnemonic is an oversimplification, and ali's do not drop away (they just aren't added in the first place). Obviously, alius would not be affected this sort of phenomenon.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re: Si alius...

Postby ptolemyauletes » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:20 pm

Titus Larcius? Isn't he a raving Communist?
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Re: Si alius...

Postby benissimus » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:27 am

ptolemyauletes wrote:Titus Larcius? Isn't he a raving Communist?

He must have been a very progressive Etruscan!
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re: Si alius...

Postby ptolemyauletes » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:56 am

Sorry, he's a friend of mine who just joined, and I couldn't resist. ;)
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