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Pharr §16 - Question

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Pharr §16 - Question

Postby jaihare » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:20 pm

In number 2 of §16, we find the following:

καλαὶ θεαί εἰσι φίλαι ψυχῇ θεᾶς θαλάσσης δεινῆς.

My question is what to make of the bold genitive phrase. I can't tell which word δεινῆς is modifying — θεᾶς or θαλάσσης. Does anyone have a way of telling in such a situation? My guess would be that it modifies the closest one (θαλάσσης δεινῆς - the terrible sea). Would "of the terrible goddess of the sea" be rather δεινῆς θεᾶς θαλάσσης, or can we really make a prediction about these things?

I think that Attic or Koine would make this clearer: τῆς δεινῆς θεᾶς τῆς θαλάττης/θαλάσσης vs. τῆς θεᾶς τῆς δεινῆς θαλάττης/θαλάσσης. Using articles is so much more helpful. :roll:

Thanks a lot!
Jason Hare
jaihare@gmail.com

ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Pharr §16 - Question

Postby annis » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:15 am

jaihare wrote:My guess would be that it modifies the closest one (θαλάσσης δεινῆς - the terrible sea).


For now that's the best rule to follow. As you read more Homer you'll start to notice a few repeated patterns of phrasal distraction. Learn enough of the hexameter to find the caesura!
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re: Pharr §16 - Question

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:31 am

annis wrote:For now that's the best rule to follow. As you read more Homer you'll start to notice a few repeated patterns of phrasal distraction. Learn enough of the hexameter to find the caesura!


I've gotta admit. This is the first time that I'm going to be doing any kind of real study in ancient poetry. I'm not even sure what a hexameter is, though it looks like "six" and "count." Don't know what caesura is either. :"> Gonna have to look this all up online somewhere. LOL

Jason
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Pharr §16 - Question

Postby annis » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:41 am

jaihare wrote:I'm not even sure what a hexameter is, though it looks like "six" and "count." Don't know what caesura is either.


Pharr will explain it when he starts in on the Iliad.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re: Pharr §16 - Question

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:49 am

annis wrote:Pharr will explain it when he starts in on the Iliad.


I looked in Google and I found a paper you wrote on the subject that has MP3 recordings linked to it. I have to say, your ancient Greek sounds nothing like my ancient Greek. Does this matter?

I'm going to at least start looking at poetry fundamentals ("feet" and "caesurae" and such). I want to get a heads up before my mind crashes.

Jason
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: Pharr §16 - Question

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:10 am

I scanned down and found the coverage of the question of poetic meter in Lesson XIV. I'll be keeping my eye on that as we study towards it. I'd really like to get this study underway already.
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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