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A Reading Course in Homeric Greek (and some other ?'s)

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A Reading Course in Homeric Greek (and some other ?'s)

Postby Aias » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:54 am

Hello everyone. I am new to Greek though I have been wanting to learn it for a little while now. For one reason or another I have not been able to take it at my school and the Classics chair literally said it is impossible to learn on my own. Well, he had me down for a while but I keep hearing about people learning on their own. Anyway, I recently started on A Reading Course in Homeric Greek and like it very much. I just reached Chapter 16- a map of the Greek verb and am not to terrified yet. It says in chapter 16 that all six principle parts will be provided for the verbs unless they do not occur in the text. They gave me 3 verbs with all 6 pp and I get it so far. Then in Chapter 17 they start giving me verbs with only 3 pp's. Okay, they rest might not occur in the text but which pp's are they? As of now I have no way of telling. I have also never heard a person in real life say to learn Homeric Greek first, but I read it on the internet all the time. I want to read the Iliad ASAP so I should obviously start with Homer, right.
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Re: A Reading Course in Homeric Greek (and some other ?'s)

Postby Lex » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:11 am

Aias wrote:...It says in chapter 16 that all six principle parts will be provided for the verbs unless they do not occur in the text. They gave me 3 verbs with all 6 pp and I get it so far. Then in Chapter 17 they start giving me verbs with only 3 pp's. Okay, they rest might not occur in the text but which pp's are they? As of now I have no way of telling.


Sometimes, one can tell by the forms of the principal parts given. For instance, ἄγω is the 1st pp (present ind. act., 1st sg.); ἄξω (=ἄγ-σω) is 2nd pp (future ind. act., 1st sg.) (the σ is a giveaway); ἄγαγον is 3rd pp (2nd aorist ind. act., 1st sg.) (since it has an ending like an imperfect ind. act., 1st sg.).

Also, many books (including Schoder & Horrigan) use dashes to indicate when a verb is defective (missing one or more pp);
e.g. "στείχω, -, στίχον" is missing the 2nd pp (this word is in the glossary at the end of book 1). It could also be missing the 4th, 5th and 6th pp's; I'd have to consult a lexicon to know for sure, and I'm feeling too lazy right now. :wink:

Aias wrote:I want to read the Iliad ASAP so I should obviously start with Homer, right.


Right.
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Re: A Reading Course in Homeric Greek (and some other ?'s)

Postby Aias » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:31 am

Thanks,
I just realized that I have a lexicon but couldn't use it because I knew no Greek. Now that I have a little I can crack it open and take a look at those verbs.
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Re: A Reading Course in Homeric Greek (and some other ?'s)

Postby Aias » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:00 pm

Never mind, I still can't really use the lexicon for verbs. I understand the dash system, but the book gives me no dashes for these verbs. This is what several of the verb entries look like in the chapters that follow 16.

ἄγω, ἄξω, ἄγαγον I lead
εὕδω, εὑδήσω, εὕδησα I sleep
θνήσκω, θανέομαι, θάνον I die
the glossary entries are the same in the back of the book. I guess it could be the first 3 principle parts, but that is strange that in chapter 16 they said they would give 6 pp's and then the very next chapter only give 3 without an explanation.

Thanks to anyone who can help out.
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Re: A Reading Course in Homeric Greek (and some other ?'s)

Postby Lex » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:47 pm

Yeah, lexicons, especially those of the Liddell, Scott & Jones variety, don't spoonfeed. They're hard to interpret. I'm still not good at using them, either.

Here's the lexical entry for εὕδω, from Diogenes:

εὕδω
impf. ηὗδον Pl.Smp.203b, E.Rh.763, 779, εὗδον Il.2.2, Theoc. 2.126; Ep. iter. εὕδεσκε Il.22.503: fut. εὑδήσω A.Ag.337: aor. εὕδησα (καθ-) Hp.Int.12:—sleep, Il.2.19, Hdt.1.34, etc.: c. acc. cogn., ὁππότ' ἂν αὖτε εὕδῃσθα γλυκὺν ὕπνον Od.8.445; ὕπνον οὐκ εὐδαίμονα E.HF1013; γλυκερὸν καὶ ἐγέρσιμον ὕπνον Theoc.24.7; μακρὸν ἀτέρμονα νήγρετον ὕπνον Mosch.3.104; ὕπνῳ γ' εὕδοντα slumbering in sleep, S.OT65; εὕδειν . . παρὰ χρυσέῃ Ἀφροδίτῃ Od.8.337, cf. 342; ξὺν ὁμήλικι εὕδειν Thgn.1063; ὅλην διατελεῖν νύκτα εὕδοντα Pl.Lg.807e; of the sleep of death, Πρόμαχος δεδμημένος εὕδει ἔγχει ἐμῷ Il.14.482; οὑμὸς εὕδων . . νέκυς S.OC621.

metaph., rest, be still, ὄφρ' εὕδῃσι μένος Βορέαο Il.5.524; εὑδέτω πόντος εὑδέτω δ' ἄμοτον κακόν Simon. 37.15, cf. A.Ag.566; πόλεμον εὕδοντ' ἐπεγείρει Sol.4.19; εὕδουσιν ὀρέων κορυφαί Alcm.60.1; οὔπω κακὸν τόδ' εὕδει E.Supp.1147 (lyr.); εὕδει χάρις sleeps, ceases, Pi.I.7(6).17; οὔποθ' εὕδει λυπρά σου κηρύγματα E.Hec.662; of the mind or heart, to be at ease, πυκνῆς ἀκοῦσαι ψακάδος εὑδούσῃ φρενί S.Fr.636, cf. Theoc.2.126; of persons, take one's ease, be inactive, κεἰ βραδὺς εὕδει S.OC307; Γοργίαν ἐάσομεν εὕδειν we will let him rest, Pl.Phdr.267a. (καθεύδω is generally used in Att. and later Prose, exc. Pl. Il.c., X.Cyn.5.11.)


The principal part tenses are the present, future, aorist, perfect, perfect middle, & aorist passive; 1st person singular for all. (BTW, Schoder & Horrigan Ch. 16 says pluperfect middle is the PP tense. Pharr says perfect middle. Can someone confirm which is correct?)

So, if we cut out a lot of the extraneous junk (I underlined the highlights in the lexicon entry above), we've got:

present, 1st PP
εὕδω

future, 2nd PP
εὑδήσω

aorist, 3rd PP
εὕδησα

There is no entry for perfect, (plu)perfect middle or aorist passive. So, it looks like it's a defective verb.
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Re: A Reading Course in Homeric Greek (and some other ?'s)

Postby modus.irrealis » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:54 pm

Lex wrote:The principal part tenses are the present, future, aorist, perfect, perfect middle, & aorist passive; 1st person singular for all. (BTW, Schoder & Horrigan Ch. 16 says pluperfect middle is the PP tense. Pharr says perfect middle. Can someone confirm which is correct?)

I've only ever seen the perfect middle used as a principal part, and double checking Smyth's grammar, he uses it as well. I guess the pluperfect could be used, but it's a much rarer form.

θνῄσκω, though, does have a pefect, τέθνηκα, and it does occur in Homer, so I'm not sure what the book is doing there.
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