Textkit Logo

Need help translating something short

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

Need help translating something short

Postby rr13d » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:35 am

Hi, I'm getting a tattoo in latin but need help getting the proper translation.
I do understand this isn't a "free translation" type site however since a tattoo is permanent for the most part I'm trying to make sure it's the correct way.

I'm trying to say exactly "Never Forgive" not with an "I" in it, just 2 words.
Most automatic translation sites say "Nunquam Indulgeo" However I also heard its spelt "NuMquam Indulgeo" and also "Nunquam Indulgere."
Thanks.
rr13d
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:29 am

Re: Need help translating something short

Postby Kasper » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:11 am

Disclaimer: this website is inhabited predominantly by people who independently study Latin and Greek. Non of us (as far as I know) are professionals or experts (well.. some i would regard as experts). I consider myself no more than an intermediate learner of Latin, and accordingly if you take up my suggestions you do so at your own risk – for a tattoo you may wish to contact professionals.

That said:

you have to figure out what exactly you are trying to say. It looks to me like an imperative, ie. that are you 'commanding' or encouraging someone never to forgive. if this is not your intention, please say so.

'nunquam indulgeo' means 'I never give in/indulge'
'nunquam indulgere' mean 'to never give in' or 'never to give in'.

i think 'ignosce' is a much better translation, because it quite simply means 'pardon' or 'forgive'. It seems a bit peculiar to use it without an indirect object (i.e. pointing to someone to be forgiven), but according to Diogenes it can be used as such, although it is rare.

A suitable translation could therefore be: 'numquam ignosce'

you are correct about numquam/nunquam. both are correct spellings of the same word. personally i like numquam better for reasons i cannot explain (de gustibus non disputandum).
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Need help translating something short

Postby rr13d » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:30 am

I suppose it would be telling someone to never forgive.
Since in english just saying "Never Forgive" would fall under the command category.
So would that still be numquam ignosce?

(And I know i should ask a professional, I have asked and will continue to ask from more sources)
rr13d
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:29 am

Re: Need help translating something short

Postby thesaurus » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:10 am

I'm not sure "ignosce numquam" would be the best Latin way of phrasing it. What do you all think of the prohibitory perfect subjunctive with 'ne'? Perhaps, "Ne ignoveris umquam," or "Ne umquam ignoveris."

rr13d, "Ne ignoveris umquam" translates to "Never Forgive," but the way it's phrased in Latin means that it is a strong prohibition. It's the way you forbid someone from doing something. The two versions I have above don't change the meaning, and you could use whichever you preferred. The "ne" is a grammatical element that expresses the negative wish, "ignoveris" is another form of the verb ignoscere, 'to forgive,' and I use "umquam" (ever) rather than "numquam" (never) because it is forbidding someone to EVER forgive (in contrast, if you said "I forbid you to never forgive," then you'd be telling them to do the opposite of what you want). Yes, it does not match the English word for word, but you can't do that if you want the Latin to be natural. "Ne umquam ignoveris" is probably your best bet.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
thesaurus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:44 pm

Re: Need help translating something short

Postby thesaurus » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:28 am

I just wanted to add that there are other ways of stating a prohibition in Latin.

In addition to what I have written above, you could say "Noli ignoscere," or "Cave ignoscas." This second example I took straight from Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar and is attested in classical texts. http://books.google.com/books?id=8roAAA ... &ct=result

"Noli ignoscere" very literally says "be unwilling/refuse/wish not to forgive."
"Cave ignoscas" very literally says "take care/beware lest you forgive.

Of course, since you're getting a tattoo, you'll have to consider how 'natural' you want the Latin to read, versus how you want it to look. If you were to choose these you can rest assured that a Classics professor would approve, but you might not care about that. Although I don't think "Numquam ignosce" is the best translation, go with it if you couldn't bear looking at the other ones. I suppose what matters is that you like your own tattoo. I have a friend with a Latin tattoo which isn't entirely grammatical, and I haven't mentioned it because 1) it can't be undone and I don't want to cause needless unhappiness, and 2) my friend gets meaning out of it regardless of whether the noun and adjective agree in gender.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
thesaurus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:44 pm

Re: Need help translating something short

Postby Kasper » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:40 am

See rr13D, i told you there were experts around. I really like 'cave ignoscas'.

i'm much impressed by your knowledge and understanding, Thesaure.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Need help translating something short

Postby thesaurus » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:51 am

Kasper wrote:See rr13D, i told you there were experts around. I really like 'cave ignoscas'.

i'm much impressed by your knowledge and understanding, Thesaure.


Thank you Kasper, but I am no expert, nor should rr13D think of me as such. I was merely lucky enough to stumble across the right section in my grammar and then all the work was done for me!
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
thesaurus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:44 pm

Re: Need help translating something short

Postby rr13d » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:22 am

Woudln't "Ne umquam" be the same as "Nun(m)quam" ?
And could you do "Numquam ignoscere" ?

I'm trying to keep it to 2 words.
rr13d
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:29 am

Re: Need help translating something short

Postby rr13d » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:40 am

I translated "nunquam ignoscas" "nunquam ignoscere" and also "nunquam ignosce" on an automatic online translator and they all translated to: "Never to Pardon"
Does that seem like a good translation for those three or is it off a little?

Also note that when I put numquam...with the M it said at no time to pardon instead of never.
rr13d
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:29 am


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], jldecker87 and 28 guests