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Could somebody help me - check....

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Could somebody help me - check....

Postby awlright » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:04 pm

5) Romani multos annos bellum gerebant:
The Romans were waging war for many years.
The 'for' i'm unsure about as there doesn't appear to be a dative to serve that purpose. But its presumably the indirect object

6) lacrimae ancillae domino tandem persuaserunt:
The tears of the girls had finally persuaded the master.
I know domino is dative or ablative: but i don't see how "to/for" (dat) or "by/with/from" (abl.)
slots in.....

Also: turba virorum in foro addest - The crowd of men is here in the forum
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Re: Could somebody help me - check....

Postby awlright » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:05 pm

or should this be translated as "are here"
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Re: Could somebody help me - check....

Postby lozzic » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:59 pm

Salve!

I have limited experience but I think both of those sentences are correct...

"For many years" is how we say it in English I think. Literally translated I assume it would be "Romans many years war were waging" rather than "Romans for many years war were waging"

The verb to persuade persuadeo often takes a dative, I think it is a dative indirect object. So generally, you can expect dominus (indirect object) to be in the dative (domino) if you see that verb.

Surely "are here" would only be used if there were crowds of men in the plural (turbae virorum).

A more experienced Latinist will probably have more to say. :)

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Re: Could somebody help me - check....

Postby timeodanaos » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:59 pm

'multos annos' is in the accusative, signifying a time 'for how long', so your translation is fine. There is no need for any dative, 'for' can also be used in adverbial phrases in English - such as this one.

'lacrimae ancillae' - what number is ancillae?

Also, and I'm sure this is just a typo, it is spelled 'adest', not 'addest'.
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Re: Could somebody help me - check....

Postby adrianus » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:42 pm

awlright wrote:or should this be translated as "are here"

Just as in Latin, I believe, awlright, in English you can say both "the crowd of men are here" and "the crowd of men is here". Therefore, if the verb in English is singular translate singularly in Latin because that is the sense intended. If the author had intended individuals in the collective noun to be understood, the plural of the verb would have been used.

Sicut anglicè, credo, awlright, latinè dicere potes et "turba virorum adsunt" et "turba virorum adest". Ideò, si anglicè verbum singularis numeri est, per singulari numero latinè vertis, quià sic scriptor cogitaverat. Si scriptor singulos nominis collectivi cogitari vellet, pluralis numeri verbum scribebatur.
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Could somebody help me - check....

Postby Superavi » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:22 am

Yeah, "persuadeo" takes the dative. Any verbs of showing, telling, or giving need an indirect object and as a result take the dative ("persuadeo" falls under telling).

One problem I see is that you translated "persuaserunt" as "had persuaded". You translated it as the pluperfect, but it is actually perfect. "had persuaded" would be "persuaserant" (if I'm not mistaken).

Otherwise, good job!
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Re: Could somebody help me - check....

Postby Essorant » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:14 am

The dative sense may be better understood if you remember that the -suad- of persuadeo is related to English sweet. It has a likeness of being sweet to someone.
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Re: Could somebody help me - check....

Postby thesaurus » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:07 pm

Also, compound verbs often take a dative. I.e., verbs with prefixes, like com, per, in, circum, etc.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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