Playing cards in Latin and in your language

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adrianus
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Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

In different periods and places, the pictures on playing cards have changed, so certain translations in Latin sometimes will be meaningless to Latin speakers of another place or time. The English names come from French cards, elements of which were borrowed from Italian cards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playing_card The English names of symbols on common cards today are in, in order: Ace (low), deuce/two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten and four face cards, or Court cards: Jack or Knave, Queen, King, plus the Joker. Suits: of Hearts, of Diamonds, of Spades, of Clubs. [I need to check this but I think that possibly you used to say in English for the run of that number of cards, terce/tierce, tetrad, pentad, hexad, heptad, ogdoad, ennead, decad (and decade, which is still frequently pronounced 'decad'). Ace from Latin monas and deuce from Latin dyas are still used, of course, and I don't think the usage of terce is outside living memory in some places.]

Pexenfelder (Germany, 1670) says Chartulae pictae seu lusoriae: monas, dyas, trias/ternio, tetras/quaternio, pemptas/quinio, hectas/senio, hebdomas/septenarius, ogdoas/octonarius, enneas/nonarius, decas/decenarius. Tribus/factiones: Cordis, Nolae, Glandis, Frondis (of Heart, Bell, Acorn, Leaf). Note genitive singular case here. His face cards in each suit are only Kings, it seems: Reges (Cordatus, Nolanus, Quernus, Gramineus seu Frondarius) Videte http://www.uni-mannheim.de/mateo/camena ... s0794.html

Ainsworth (England, 1808) says Chartae lusoriae/pictae: monas, dyas, ternio, quaternio, pentas, senio, heptas, ogdoas, enneas. decas. Chartae imaginem humanam gerens: Miles/eques, Regina, Rex. Familia seu ) Cors, Rhombus, Trifolium (for Club), Macula Nigra (Spade).

If it's no trouble, please, would you tell me the common names of these playing cards in your language of today, plus the literal English translations of their names?
Si tibi non molestum est, quaeso, dicasne mihi appellationes vulgares harum charularum pictarum tuâ linguâ nostro tempore, appellationibus etiam verbatim in Anglicum conversis?

For example, in French Exempli gratiâ, Francicé:
Cartes à Jouer (playing cards): l'as 1 (Ace), le deux 2, le trois 3, le quatre 4, le cinq 5, le six 6, le sept 7, le huit 8, le neuf 9, le dix 10. Cartes de face?? (Face cards): le valet (the servant), la Dame (the Lady), le Roi (the King), le Joker (the Joker). Suits: de pique (of Spade): de coeur (of Heart), de trèfle (of Clover), de carreau (of Square)
As a shortcut, just cut and paste the above text to edit. Pro compendiariâ, haec verba duplica et inice ut eos redigas.
Last edited by adrianus on Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

timeodanaos
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by timeodanaos »

In Danish:

The four colours are called
hjerter, hearts, means the same.
ruder, diamonds, the Danish word actually means windowglass, probably because of the shape.
spar, spades, the Danish word has an older spelling Spader and has the same etymology as the English word, probably from Spanish 'espadas'.
klør, clubs, this word is actually the word kløver abbreviated in colloquial language, kløver means clover.

es, ace, this word can also mean the side of one on dice and comes from Latin as.
2-10, these are called by their respective number, e.g. spar tre, spades three

knægt is the same word as knave, i.e. either a soldier or simply a young man.
This card can also be called bonde, peasant.
dronning, queen. This card can also be called dame, lady.
konge, king.

adrianus
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

Great, timeodanaos. Much appreciated.
Mirum est, timeodanaos. Maximam gratiam tibi habeo.
English 'spade/spado (card mark)' (OED, 1598) directly from Italian, spada spade (pl.), "broad sword", or as you say Spanish, from latin spatha, ae (generis feminini)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

timeodanaos
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by timeodanaos »

adrianus wrote:English 'spade' (OED, 1598) directly from Italian, spado spade (pl.), "broad sword", from latin spatha, ae (generis feminini)
The older Danish dictionary I used (the only really really broad one in 28+5 parts) cites only Spanish 'espadas', meaning a (broad) daggert, but anyway, anyone could see it's the same word.

Considering the history of playing cards in Europe, it would certainly seem more probable with a derivate from Italian.

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Alatius »

For what it's worth, the Swedish terms are basically the same as in Danish. The four suits are hjärter ("hearts"), ruter ("squares"), spader, and klöver ("clover"). The first card is an ess, but the following cards just have cardinal numbers (e.g. hjärter två, hjärter tre, hjärter fyra...). The face cards are often called klädda kort, "dressed cards", and consist of knekt, "soldier" (otherwise arcaic word), dam, "lady" (never drottning, "queen", as in Danish), and kung, "king".

By the way, what are the traditional Latin names for chess pieces?

adrianus
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

Gratias tibi de responso, Alati.
Alatius wrote:By the way, what are the traditional Latin names for chess pieces?

Utrimque est rex, regina, bini duces, bini episcopi, bini milites atque octo pedites, ut credo.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

Swth\r
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Swth\r »

In modern Greek they come either from Italian or French.

King = ρήγας [‘riγas] from “rex-regis”, probably a linguistic relic from Venetian occupation or Roman-Buzantine era.
Queen = ντάμα [ ‘dama] from French “dame” = lady, from Latin "domina-ae"
Knave = βαλές [va ‘les] from French “valet”. It is also called φάντης [‘fandis], from Italian “fante” which comes from Latin “infans-ntis”
Ace = άσ(σ)ος [ ‘asos] from Italian “asso” from Latin "as-assis"
The numbers are called as greek numbers.
I haven't found (yet) about Joker...

Groups:
Hearts = κούπα [ ‘kupα], plural κούπες [‘kupes], from Italian “coppe” (=cups) from Latin "cup(p)a-ae"
Diamonds, squares = καρώ [ka’ro] from French “carreaux” from Latin "quadrellus-i"
Spades, clovers = σπαθί [spa’θi] from venetian “spade” (= sword), from Latin “spata-ae”
Clubs = μπαστούνι [ba’stuni] from Italian “bastoni” (= pike, club, stick) from Latin "bastus-i"

In greek (and in english) cards the figures “Spades” and “Clubs” are named in the opposite way than in first time in Italian (where bastoni=clover , spade=shovel), apparently because the etymology of those words was/is very "dark" for modern Greeks.

So, Latin origin in greek cards:

Rex, for "king"
Domina, for "queen"
infans, for "knave"
Spata, for "clover" (instead for "club")
Bastus, for "club" (instead for "clover")
quadrellus, for "diamond"
cup(p)a, for "heart"

I just learned some very intersting things, many more than those posted above! Welldone, Adrianus. :D
Last edited by Swth\r on Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Dives qui sapiens est...

Swth\r
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Swth\r »

Did you know?
A summe of what I learned...

Card playnig has its origin in China.
It came to Europe through Turkish and mostly Mameluks to Italy and Spain (at first) in the 14th century.
The first human figures were King, Knight, Servant.
After the Queen was inserted, Knight and Servant became the known as "Knave".
Groups were symbols: Clovers for farmers, diamonds for merchants, Clubs for noblemen, Hearts for clergy. (In Italy the names were: "bastoni, denari,spade,coppe"=stick,money,sword,cup)
Dives qui sapiens est...

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bedwere
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by bedwere »

Italian names for French cards:

King=Re
Queen=Regina
Knave=Fante
Joker=La matta (but more often called Jolly)
Ace=Asso

Hearts=Cuori (Hearts)
Diamonds=Quadri (Squares)
Spades=Picche (from the French pique)
Clubs=Fiori (Flowers)

adrianus
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

Great, Salvator & bedwere. Curiouser and curiouser!!
Eu! Mirum plus ultrá fit, Salvator bedwereque!!
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

adrianus
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

Here's the passage from Vives that I had lost
Ecce locus quem desideraveram:
Vives ([b]Spain and Netherlands[/b], 1492-1540), Colloquia difficiliora, wrote:Hispanae habent aureos numos, carchesia, baculos, enses;
Gallicae corda, rhombulos, trifolia, vomerculos seu palas seu spicula.
Est in quaqua famila rex, regina, eques, monas, dyas, trias, quaternio, pentas, senio, heptas, ogdoas, enneas.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by cdm2003 »

adrianus wrote:Gratias tibi de responso, Alati.
Alatius wrote:By the way, what are the traditional Latin names for chess pieces?

Utrimque est rex, regina, bini duces, bini episcopi, bini milites atque octo pedites, ut credo.
Uh...which are the rooks, the duces or milites? I always thought knights should have been equites and rooks turres...but I that was only a guess.
Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae

adrianus
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

Salve cdm2003
A duke is greater than a knight. The rook is the "duke". Miles = a knight in the medieval period. Pedes (pawn)= a foot-soldier.
Dux (appelatio aevi medii quae anglicè "duke" significat) maior est quàm miles (anglicè "knight" aevo medio).
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Junya »

Hi, Adrianus. :D

In Japan, the name of the cards are just a literal translation or transcription of the English way of naming them as you told.

Ace.......E-su (just a transcription of English to Japanese)
Two.....Ni (which means two)
Three......San (which means three)
and in the same way until 10.

Jack......Jakku (just a transcription of English to Japanese)
Queen......Kui-n (just a transcription of English to Japanese)
King .......Kingu (just a transcription of English to Japanese)

Heart.......Ha-to (just a transcription of English to Japanese)
Diamond......Daiya (just a transcription of English to Japanese, with a shortening from Daiyamondo to Daiya)
Spade.....Supe-do (just a transcription of English to Japanese)
Club....... Kurabu (just a transcription of English to Japanese) or Curo-ba- (which is a transcription of Clover) or Mitsuba (which is a Japanese name of clover)

Joker......Jo-ka- (just a transcription of English to Japanese)

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

Gratias tibi ago, Junya.

Cardano (De Ludo Aleae, pub. 1663 but written in the 1560s) says for the names of the face, or Court, cards: King, Foot soldier, and either the Queen (in France) or the Knight (in Italy).
Dicit Cardanus Italus (decade millesimo quingentensimo sexagensimo incipiente), nomina chartarum figurarum Regem, Pedem (anglicè "Knave"), et Reginam (secundùm Gallos) seu Equitem (secundùm Italos) esse.

A Netherlands treatise (1534), gives Denarii, Trifolia, Ligones, Corda
Also...
Singer (1816) [i]Researches into the History of Playing Cards[/i], p.57, (but as a table) wrote:English
Diamonds, Clubs, Hearts, Spades
King, Queen, Knave
German
Rauten [Rhombi] or Schellen [little bells], Kreuzen [Crosses] or Eicheln [Acorns], Herzen [Hearts] or Rothe [Red?], Spaten [Spades] or Grüne [Green? blossoming?] or Laub [Leaves]
Konig [King], Obermann [officer?], Untermann [private?]
Dutch
Ruyten [Rhombi/diamond-shaped panes of glass], Claver [Clover/Trefoil], Hertzen [Hearts], Schoppen [Shovels/Spades]
Italian
Quadri [rhombi or squares?] or Denari [Money], Fiori [flowers] or Mattoni [?] or Bastoni [clubs], Cuori [Hearts] or Coppe [goblets], Picche [Spades] or Spade [broad swords]
Ré [King], Réina [Queen] or Cavallo [horse], Fante [footman? pageboy?]
Spanish
Ladrillos [bricks?] or Dineros [Money], Bastos [Clubs?] or Palos [spades?], Coraçones [?] or Copas [goblets?], Picas [pikes?] or Spadas [Swords]
Rey [King], Reyna [Queen] or Caballo [Horse]
Portuguese
Oiros [Money/Gold?] or Ouros [Money/Gold?], Paós {?], Copas [goblet?], Espadas [Swords]
Rey [King], Reyna [Queen] or Cavallo [Horse]
French
Carreau [Square], Trefle [Clover or Trefoil], Coeurs [Hearts], Piques [Pikes]
Roi [King], Reine [Queen], Valet [Manservant]
Daus [German, deuce]
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

ingrid70
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by ingrid70 »

I think your Dutch translations come from an old book, spelling has changed since then ;-).:

Modern Dutch:
Ruiten, klaver, harten, schoppen
Koning/heer, vrouw, boer
Aas, 2, 3, etc.

Ingrid

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Swth\r »

Junya wrote: or Mitsuba (which is a Japanese name of clover)
Hello Junya! May I ask what "Mitsubishi" exactly means? It seems it has some short of relation to "Mitsuba". :roll:

Thanks!

[Sorry for the off-topic, Adrianus!]
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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Junya »

Hi Swth/r.

Do you mean that big company in Japan?
Yes, Mitsuba, that is, clover, resembles that trade mark of Mitsubishi.
But, Mitsuba and Mitsubishi are not the same.
Their common part "mitsu" means "three".
And "ba" in "Mitsuba" means leaf. So Mitsuba is that three-leaved plant, clover.
"Bishi" in "Mitsubishi" means a kind of shape. I can't explain the shape in English, for the lack of vocabulary, so please look into that trade mark of "Mitsubishi". That mark consists of three "hishi". ("Hishi" is the original form, and "bishi" is a phonologically changed form.)

Here is Mitsubishi's homepage. The page is in Japanese.
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Alatius »

From the look of the logo, a hishi is then a rhombus (or rhomb), or, indeed, a diamond, as on the playing cards.

[Bringing it back on topic.] :lol:

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

How you do translate the heart and spade symbols in 'real' japanese (in the Latin alphabet), Junya?
Quomodò, Junya, orthographiâ latinâ in sermones japonicas et authenticas signa cordis et palae vertis?
ingrid70 wrote:I think your Dutch translations come from an old book, spelling has changed since then ;-).
Yes, of 1816! BTW, are there Dutch equivalents of "deuce" or "tray", ingrid70? Also vrouw =? boer =? exactly "queen"? and "knave" in an older sense of lesser-noble, or servant or, in a more modern sense, a rascal? or what words exactly in English, would you say?
Ità, anni millesimi octingentesimi sexti decimi! Obiter, exstantne verba nederlandicè velut anglicè "deuce" et "tray"?
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by quendidil »

Adriane, I do not think there are any native Japanese adaptations of the French suit of cards commonly used in this age - only the borrowed English terms are in common use.

However, there were native adaptations into Japanese based on 16th century Portuguese cards. The name of the suits are all direct translations of the Portuguese terms, which I think are essentially identical to the Spanish ones: konbou 棍棒 (club), touken 刀剣 (sword), sakazuki 杯 (cup), kahei 貨幣 (coin). ['ou' and 'ei' are pronounced like long o and e in Latin respectively, never as in French or English]

The Portguese cards evolved along their own track in Japan, in a rather quirky process. There is some info on wikipedia.

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Swth\r »

Hishi-fishi = brill - diamond - lozenge - rhomb - rhombus - teetotum

I suppose rhomb-rhombus is the best answer.

Thanks Junya!

[End of off-topic discussion :D ]
Dives qui sapiens est...

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by adrianus »

Thanks, Quendidil. You furnished more that I had hoped for. I was hoping to know the Japanese for the symbols on the French cards, that aren't actually used for the card names.

To my mind, what you asked was relevant, Savator, because now I have two out of four names for the symbols (mitsuba and hishi).

Gratias tibi ago, Quendil. Plura quàm rogavi paravit. Speraveram scire appellationes signorum, ques non similes illis chartarum sunt.

Meâ mente, quod rogavisti aptum est, Salvator, quià nunc duas è quattuor signorum appellationes japonicè scio.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Junya »

Yes, Alatius, and Swth\r, "Hishi" of "Mitsubishi" is rhombus, and the shape of diamond.
Originally, there is an aquatic plant called "Hishi", and its shape is rhombus.
But Japanese don't call the playing cards' Diamond "Hishi".
We just call it "Daia", which means "Diamond" (a shortened form of "Daiamondo").
Last edited by Junya on Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Junya »

Adrianus, Heart is in Japanese "Shinzo", and "Spade" is in Japanese "Suki" or just generally "Shaberu"(a transcription of "shovel").

But Japanese don't call the playing cards' Heart "Shinzo", and Spade "Suki". Japanese just use for them the transcriptions "Ha^to" and "Supe^do".
Last edited by Junya on Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playing cards in Latin and in your language

Post by Junya »

quendidil さん、こんにちは。
ぼくは印度哲学科の学生ですが、ラテン語とギリシャ語を独学しています。

ぼくのブログです。
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/dakuserukun
ラテン語の勉強で訳したのを投稿するだけの内容です。

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