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De Corona 58

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De Corona 58

Postby vir litterarum » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:18 am

ἀπὸ γὰρ τούτων ἐξεταζομένων εὑρεθήσεται εἴτ' ἀληθῆ περὶ ἐμοῦ γέγραφε Κτησιφῶν ταῦτα καὶ προσήκοντα εἴτε καὶ ψευδῆ: τὸ δὲ μὴ [Κτησιφῶντα] προσγράψαντα ‘ἐπειδὰν τὰς εὐθύνας δῶ’ στεφανοῦν, καὶ ἀνειπεῖν ἐν τῷ θεάτρῳ τὸν στέφανον κελεῦσαι, κοινωνεῖν μὲν ἡγοῦμαι καὶ τοῦτο τοῖς πεπολιτευμένοις
57-58

My first question here is regarding the usage of μὴ with the participle: here there is clearly no conditional or general force to the participle, so why is μὴ used to negate it?

Here is WIlliam Goodwin's note on the two bolded infinitives

the bidding me... to be crowned... and the crown to be proclaimed in the theatre(στεφανοῦν and ἀνειπεῖν in the usual active form)


So, even though it must be translated as a passive infinitive, the active is retained to preserve the original sense of the decree. Is that what Goodwin is saying?
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Re: De Corona 58

Postby Swth\r » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:24 am

I think it is "τὸ μὴ στεφανοῦν", "τὸ μὴ ἀνειπεῖν"... But I am not sure ... I feel sleepy now. I will come back tomorrow. :?
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Re: De Corona 58

Postby IreneY » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:14 am

You won't find much help here I'm afraid. I cannot think why "μη" is used although something seems to be scratching at the back of my mind. It'll probably come at it's own good time.

I am not sure what the note means. Swthr was probably quite sleepy when he wrote his post since the second one is affirmative :) (plus he's not answering your question and this is really out of character!! :D ) I kind of get the feeling that he means that the passive and middle voice were rarely used.
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Re: De Corona 58

Postby vir litterarum » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:22 am

μὴ is definitely going with the participle here: Demosthenes is stating that Ktesiphon did not add "whenever he gives the accounts," which was a technical problem with the crowning that Aeschines cited.
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Re: De Corona 58

Postby modus.irrealis » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:32 am

With μή, I'd say this is a sort of attraction, where the expected οὐ of a participle is replaced by μή because the verb it depends on would take μή (here the infinitive) -- see Smyth 2737.

About the active infinitive, it does seem that Goodwin is saying that in constructions with κελεύω (and similar verbs?), the active infinitive is the usual construction. There's stuff like that in French and German too, where you have constructions that use an active infinitive but the English equivalents require a passive infinitive -- although, even English has things like "the book's easy to read" where the infinitive is active but sort of has a passive meaning with respect to "book." I can't say that I've noticed anything on this issue either way. LSJ mentions examples like σιγᾶν κελεύω which are similar, but now I'm wondering...
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Re: De Corona 58

Postby vir litterarum » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:53 am

Thanks for the Smyth reference. I had completely forgotten about this sort of attraction.

I still don't understand those infinitives though. It seems like it should just be a passive complementary infinitive with τὸ κελεῦσαι. I haven't seen an instance before where I've had to translate an active complementary infinitive passively.
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Re: De Corona 58

Postby Swth\r » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:55 am

Demosthenes wrote:τὸ δὲ μὴ προσγράψαντα ‘ἐπειδὰν τὰς εὐθύνας δῷ’ στεφανοῦν, καὶ ἀνειπεῖν ἐν τῷ θεάτρῳ τὸν στέφανον κελεῦσαι, κοινωνεῖν μὲν ἡγοῦμαι καὶ τοῦτο τοῖς πεπολιτευμένοις, εἴτ' ἄξιός εἰμι τοῦ στεφάνου καὶ τῆς ἀναρρήσεως τῆς ἐν τούτοις εἴτε καὶ μή·


Good morning! (For me at least...) I would say it is what "modus.irrealis" has pointed out. But do you think it is possible that the subject of the infinitive is not Ktesiphon? Did he crown himself Demosthenens? Perhaps something is emplied (like in case "ἐκέλευσε σαλπίγξαι - τὸν σαλπιγγτὴν is implied")... "τὸν κήρυκα" perhaps?

Another question from me. How do you translate-understand the passage? Is it "τὸ στεφανοῦν..., καὶ ... (τὸ) κελεῦσαι, ἡγοῦμαι καὶ τοῦτο κοινωνεῖν τοῖς πολιτευομένοις"?

The fact that he (?) crowned..., and the fact that he (?) recommended/ordered..., I think that this also is concerned with the measures of (my) administration.

Is this the meaning, or am I comprehending it the wrong way? Perhaps it goes like : The fact that (Ktesiphon)without first adding "..." recommended (someone, "an envoy-crier"?) to crown me , and to declare the crown inside the theater, I think this also is concerned with the measures of (my) public behaviour/administration. But I have problem with the comma between...

what do you think?
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