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Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

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Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby anantah » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:52 am

Dear all,

I have taken up the Vulgate a couple of days ago. As I am only on the second-year level, I need badly something that can help me go though and hopefully improve my reading ability as much as possible. I had seen a site which not only provided the text but also brief notes for each line to help beginners out, but unfortunately I didn't keep its address on my computer and cannot find it anymore. I would very much appreciate if anyone reminds me of this.

It will aslo be of great help if you kindly provide me with your suggestions. I have the Grammar of the Vulgate of Plater & White but it's still too advanced for me. Are there any study materials or references for my level on the internet?

Thank you in advance.
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby steven » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:49 pm

Read with a good english bible. What Vulgate do you have? If you have the Nova Vulgata, produced after Vatican ll, the New American Bible is the best, which I think is based from that edition. It's also the easiest version to read. If you have the older, Clemetine Vulgate (council of Trent), the douay-rheims version would probably be best. Keep it up! the good news is that the Vulgate is just that, rendered for the vulgus- "regular folks" and is ALOT easier than most classical authors, though on the flip side, the vocab and syntax are different, hence it could be more confusing. On those points I am no expert. Also there are ecclesiastical dictionaries to be found in any good library, which are especially essential for the old testament.
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby thesaurus » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:56 pm

Feel free to post any questions you may have here. We can tell you whether they're strange constructions or more common. Often the best way to approach a new text is just to jump and in and see what questions arise.

One thing you might notice as different from classical Latin is the use of "quod." It's used to introduce indirect speech when you'd sometimes expect the accusative + infinitive construction in classical Latin. Sometimes "quia" is used as well. If you're familiar with romance languages, it might be helpful to know that "quod" turned into "que".

English: I say that he is the father.
Classical: Dico eum patrum esse.
Ecclesiastical: Dico quod pater est.
Italian: Dico che e' il padre.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby Interaxus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:41 am

Here are some Vulgate Verses with audio and study guide:

http://latinviaproverbs.pbwiki.com/bible006

and the accompanying blog:

http://vulgateverses.blogspot.com/

Cheers,
Int
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby paulusnb » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:17 pm

If you download Diogenes and get the PHI texts, you will have access to a Vulgate and a dictionary at the push of a button. Getting the PHI Texts will take a few weeks but they are worth it. And they are free.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby Interaxus » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:39 am

Here’s a Latin-English parallel text of the whole Bible – for free (though without the desired notes):

http://www.latinvulgate.com/

cheers,
Int
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby Interaxus » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:24 am

I downloaded Diogenes (v. 3.1.6) for a wee fee and faxed my licensee application to the Packard Humanities Institute so maybe in a few weeks I’ll get my 2 free CDs in the mail with all those lovely Latin and Greek materials.

Meanwhile I had the bad luck (reverse serendipity?) to search for ‘oppugno’ in Diogenes. All I got was the following:

Could not find dictionary headword for oppugno. Showing nearest entry: optume

No problem with ‘expugno’ and most other words that I could think of. So I’m curious - can other Diogenes users find ‘oppugno’ - or is there no such verb?

Incidentally, Diogenes won’t let me copy-and-paste. :evil:

Cheers,
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby paulusnb » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:53 pm

Interaxus. You had to pay for Diogenes? Is this something new? My version was free and I downloaded it two months ago.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby anantah » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:57 pm

Sorry that I had not replied earlier. Thank you all for your help.

I have already found the parallel bible that Interaxus posted, but it's just so mysterious that the one I have seen a few month ago couldn't be found any more - which I think is a pity because its notes actually made a lot of points clear.

I have a Stuttgart Vulgate and for comparison I use a Darby Bible in French - which I happened to have at hand and found often quite close with the syntax of the Vulgate. I consult the Nova Vulgata as well especially for some long sentences because the Stuttgart version has no punctuation and the phrase structure may sometimes get obscured - but it may also be interesting.

I will try Diogenes too. I'm not familiar with it, is it possible to download PHI texts somewhere online?

As to oppugno, maybe you should try obpugno. Different dictionaries have different choices treating ob-, ab-, etc.
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby Interaxus » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:07 pm

paulusnb:
I came across this link: http://diogenes.en.softonic.com/download and was seduced by the promise of 'virus-free' and by the fact that ANYTHING could be as cheap as $2.99, and since I have a PayPal account... Totally stupid of me. :oops:

anantan:
Yes, I did try obpugno too - didn't help. So not so stupid this time round. :)
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby paulusnb » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:19 pm

"is it possible to download PHI texts somewhere online?"

No. You have to contact the Packard Humanities Institute. Specifically, contact Brigitte R. Comparini. phi@packhum.org
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby anantah » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:36 am

Thanks Paulus. I'll contact this lady asap.
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby modus.irrealis » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:28 pm

Diogenes sometimes doesn't find stuff that are there for whatever reason -- the easiest way around that I've found is to use the parser and put in another form of the word -- like in this case, if you parse oppugnare you get taken to the entry for oppugno. If that doesn't work, I usually try finding a word close to the word I'm looking for and then go manually until I reach the entry.
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby anantah » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:33 am

Your idea is great M. I.

I think the database may have a little bug somewhere before optume. In fact if you type in "opprobra", you get opprimo which is not far away, but if you type "opprobrat" or further, then you will only get optume and as you click "previous entry" under optume, you get a blank page.

Interaxus, you cannot use right click to copy the entry, but if you use ctrl+c, it works, e.g.:

optŭmē
optŭmē (optĭm-), adv., v. bonus
fin.
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Re: Suggestions for reading the Vulgate

Postby Interaxus » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:39 pm

Well, I'm glad Diogenes isn't only quirky with me.

Thanks, anantah, for the ctrl-C tip. Why didn't I think of that myself? :oops:

Overall, Diogenes feels a bit primitive as far as its user interface goes. For example, it only offers Next Entry and Prevous Entry. Since the dictionary contains trillions of words (a plus in itself) it takes ages to step through to what you thought might lie just around the corner. And then you have to step all the way back again, Previous Entry by painful Previous Entry! Would it have been so difficult for them to include a PageDown/PageUp or a Home button? Or a scrolling list? Or is there some magic key combination for these functions too?

But perhaps it's mean-spirited of me to be so picky, considering Diogenes provides such wondrous resources - and all for free! Perhaps it's up to me the user to find a way of taming the beast.

Cheers,
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