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Check my translation please?

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Check my translation please?

Postby Exitao » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:30 pm

Just a little phrase, if you can spare the time:


Callide quod ut celer ira.

Thanks in advance,

eX
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:48 pm

What phrase are you translating, eX? (Otherwise, can't check your latin)
Quid vertis, eX? (Aliter, quod latinè habes verificari/comperi non potest)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby Exitao » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:16 pm

The one in italics.


Callide quod ut celer ira.


Unless you want the English...

"Subtle and quick to anger."


Thank you for your response, BTW.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Salve eX

You want to translate, "Subtle and quick to anger", right? It would help to know from what period this comes, because the English is ambiguous. "Subtle" in English can mean "subtle" in a modern sense or "cunning" or "thin, or piercing" in an older sense, while "to anger" may mean "to make angry" or "to become angry". If you can't say, no problem. "Callide quod ut celer ira" isn't right, BTW, I would say, unless you mean "Something cunning/clever that I would be hidden from by anger".
Sententiam anglicam vertere vis, nonné? Meliùs si scis quo saecullo venit hoc dictum, quià ambiguum anglicè est. Si dicere non potes, minimè grave.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby Exitao » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:57 pm

I assumed from its context that subtle should mean clever, cunning and/or experienced.

And I figure, that "quick to anger" implies a short temper. So maybe iracundus would have been more appropriate?
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:04 pm

As a translation perhaps, "subtilis/acutus et paratè/citò iratus" for "sly/cunning and readily/soon/quickly angered/angry" for a person. "Iracundus" is nice, indeed.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby vastor » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:17 pm

Salvete exitao adrianumque,

Assuming the ommitted subject is in the third person and the default masculine gender, you could write something like this:
Sua ira celeris levisque est.
His anger is quick and capricious.
Last edited by vastor on Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby vastor » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:41 pm

adrianus wrote:"Iracundus" is nice, indeed.


Isn't the word "Iracundus" uncommon and medieval in origin?
Nonne verbum "Iracundus" in origine serius multo et inusitatum est.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby Exitao » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:44 pm

Thank you for your time Adrianus. So, you like iracundus, but for a person feel that citò iratus is better for a person?

Perhaps to make it more clear, it is a justification for a warning, "for they are subtle and quick to anger." In this case I would like it to be singular, instead of plural.

What about callide as regards cunning, crafty, shrewd? I see it as a warning that this is a dangerous person because of experience, cleverness and easily angered.


Vastor:
I don't know if it's appropriate in this case, but I quite like the turn of Sua ira celeris levisque est. That reminds me of a time before ADHD meds. LOL
Last edited by Exitao on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:47 pm

vastor wrote:
adrianus wrote:"Iracundus" is nice, indeed.


Isn't the word "Iracundus" uncommon and medieval in origin?
Nonne verbum "Iracundus" in origine serius multo et inusitatum est.

Not at all. It's a classical word.
Minimè, vastor. Classicum.

vastor wrote:"Facilis et brevis/celer iratus facere est."

Adjectives have adverbival force in circumstances other than this, I think. Best, I think, to say (if you want to use facilis and brevis (though) "subtle" is omitted + "facere est" is odd) "Facilè et breviter iratus fit"
Aliis contextibus non hoc, credo, adjectivi vim adverbiorum habere possunt. Meliùs est ità scribere (si "facilis" et "brevis" dictionibus utaris et "subtle" vel "cunning" anglicè negligas, et vitium est obiter "facere" sic scribere): "Facilè et breviter iratus fit."
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:49 pm

Exitao wrote: So, you like iracundus, but for a person feel that citò iratus is better for a person?
No. Either is good, I say: "citò iracundus" or "citò iratus"
Minimè. Utrum bonum est, dico.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby Exitao » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:01 pm

So, acutus et iracundus (est)?
Could callidus et iracundus (est) work as well?
And do we need a verb?
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby vastor » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:22 pm

adrianus wrote: "facere est" is odd


Complimentary Infinitive.
Verbum infinitum complementariumque.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby vastor » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:33 pm

Exitao wrote:And do we need a verb?


Without a verb, how would you identify the subject? To me, it would be vague and nonsensical without a verb or a pronoun representing the subject.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:41 pm

Exitao wrote:So, acutus et iracundus (est)?
Could callidus et iracundus (est) work as well?
And do we need a verb?

Salve eX
callidus = acutus = subtilis, indeed.
A verb? With "est" you can give it or not (leaving it understood).
But "quick to anger" is not "iracundus". You need the adverb with "iracundus".
You can also have for iracundus or iratus the following: irritatus, exscerbatus, exasperatus, incensus.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:54 pm

vastor wrote:
adrianus wrote: "facere est" is odd
Complimentary Infinitive.
Verbum infinitum complementariumque.

Scripsisti:
Facilis et brevis/celer iratus facere est.
He is easy and quick to make angry.

Not with "est", nor even if you wrote "faci [sic*]".
Cum "est" verbo non licet, nec si quidem "faci [sic*]" scribas.
*Corrigendum. "fieri", non "faci"! Gratias, Didyme.
Last edited by adrianus on Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby vastor » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:13 pm

adrianus wrote:Cum "est" verbo non licet, nec si quidem "faci" scribas.

Verum dixisti. de verbo "possum" cogitabam.

Gratiae.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:04 pm

The adjective you're looking for, eX, is "irascibilis -e" = "irascible" or "choleric" or "quick to become angry", even though post-classical. Otherwise, use "angry" with an adverb.
Adjectivum quod quaeris (etsi post-classicum) est "irascibilis -e". Aliter, utere adverbio cum "iracundus" adjectivo.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby Exitao » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:09 pm

Salve Adrianus,

So then, callidus et citò iracundus est, should work, yes?

Now, when using irascibilis, this is the equivalent of the English irascible, as an adjective, it can stand alone as et irascibilis? What about citò irascus? I like it because it can convey the meaning of wrathfulness.

Again, thank you gentlemen for your time and patience.

eX
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:38 am

Exitao wrote:[1.] So then, callidus et citò iracundus est, should work, yes?
[2.] Now, when using irascibilis, this is the equivalent of the English irascible, as an adjective, it can stand alone as et irascibilis?
[3.] What about citò irascus? I like it because it can convey the meaning of wrathfulness.

1. yes. Ità
2. yes. Certé.
3. No. Minimè. "irascus" doesn't exist/ non exstat.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby Exitao » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:20 am

Ah! Thank you once again for your time and knowledge.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby adrianus » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:11 pm

I looked up Lewis & Short, eX, and the definition of "iracundus" fits exactly what you said, and not as I was saying. I was wrong and "iracundus" (classical) seems the equivalent of the later word "irascibilis" (post-classical). Sorry for misleading you, when you were right the whole time about "iracundus". So, "iracundus" as you said, and not "citò iracundus" as I said.

"Irascundus" apud dictionarium Lewis & Short inquisivi. Ego erravi et tu rectè dixisti. "Iracundus" (classicè) et "irascibilis" (post-classicè) synonyma sunt. Me excusas, eX, qui te (semper de "iracundus" adjectivo benè dicentem) decepi. :oops:
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Check my translation please?

Postby Exitao » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:21 pm

Salve Adriane, si vales, bene est, ego valeo.

Thank you for this new info. You have no need to apologise, you have helped me and I appreciate it. There is no deception when one believes he speaks honestly.


Di te incolumem custodiant.

eX
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