Textkit Logo

chs XXXII XXXIII and XX XXI μιow verbs and participles

Are you reading Homeric Greek or studying Homeric Greek with Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners? Here's where you can meet other Homeric Greek learners. Use this board for all things Homeric Greek.

chs XXXII XXXIII and XX XXI μιow verbs and participles

Postby Tertius Robertus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:16 pm

i leave you with these question:

  1. On the present participle: he presents for them 2 possible charts that differ by the stem. that is, the stem either ends in ovt and nominative wv, ouca and ov; or in ovt avt evt uvt, ending in s in the nominative masc. How the hell can I know to which class the verb belongs? knowing not the stem previously? :roll: [at least he says something about the mi :roll: which goes into the second]
  2. On the mi verbs, there are also four (with the pres and imper for each) charts for the mi's differing only by the vowel in the duals and plurals, how can I know to which chart the verb belongs?
  3. Also, how do their 3rd persons behave when followed by vowel? it is ci does the i drops and the c goes s, or there is nu movable thing? or both?
  4. He asks to memorize all 11 forms of the participle. but there are only 10 :?
    act: ps aor fut perf, medial: these and fut perf, passive: aor
  5. Finally do the existence of a principal forms implies the existence of the derived forms? and does its inexistence implies the inexistence of the derived forms? I ask this because of the olekei, which has imperfect, but not the others.
Last edited by Tertius Robertus on Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tertius Robertus
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:05 am

Re: chs XXXII XXXIII and XX XXI μιow verbs and participles

Postby modus.irrealis » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:14 pm

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Postby Tertius Robertus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:23 pm

thanks, mode, this is great :D
Tertius Robertus
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:05 am

Postby edonnelly » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:09 pm

Tertius Robertus wrote:thanks, mode, this is great :D


I agree. This info is very helpful. Thanks.
The lists:
G'Oogle and the Internet Pharrchive - 1100 or so free Latin and Greek books.
DownLOEBables - Free books from the Loeb Classical Library
User avatar
edonnelly
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:47 am
Location: Music City, USA

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:34 pm

I'm relieved it makes sense. It was really helpful for me too to try and explain it :D.
modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Postby Tertius Robertus » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:56 pm

i have another question on mi verbs. because we are given another chart to memorize, which is the perfect system of ιστημι, but it is not told whther the chart works for all the mi verbs with the combination (h a) of verb stems..

by the way, i remember to have asked somewhere how to know to which chart the mi verb belongs, it seems that the mi verbs have besides themselves at the exercises lists between parenteses the combination of verb stems, among other things which i am still not able to dechipher.

cheers
Tertius Robertus
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:05 am

Postby annis » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:12 pm

Tertius Robertus wrote:i have another question on mi verbs. because we are given another chart to memorize, which is the perfect system of ιστημι, but it is not told whther the chart works for all the mi verbs with the combination (h a) of verb stems..


ἵστημι must be taken on its own terms — it's a very odd verb.

I'm not a big fan of the phrase "μι-verbs." There is no such thing as a μι-verb, there are only verbs which have μι presents. It is true that some of the most common μι-present verbs are odd in several of the principal parts, but that's not intrinsic to their taking μι-presents. βαίνω is a perfectly normal present stem but has a root-aorist, ἔβην, which acts like the 2nd aorist of ἵστημι, ἔστην, whereas δείκνυμι has a boring, regular aorist, ἔδειξα.

Each principal part of a verb may have its own character which will not necessarily be predictable from other principal parts.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby Tertius Robertus » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:01 pm

thanks, yeah that makes sense. i found it weird too when he defined athematic and thematic verbs, just to say later that no verb is thoroughly athematic or thematic... :? some grammarians.... :?
Tertius Robertus
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:05 am

Postby Tertius Robertus » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:41 am

there is yet another thing which i didnt notice before. 3 of the mi present verbs (:D) have 2nd aorists, whereas icthmi doesnt. also, these 3 have also a 1st aorist, which is not displayed at the chart. so just i must assume that they are regular on account of this. secondly, does the lack of a second aorsit system is a particularity if icthmi, or a generality of the mi present verbs with stem (h a).
Tertius Robertus
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:05 am

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:05 am

modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Postby Tertius Robertus » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:23 pm

thanks mode :D
Tertius Robertus
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:05 am

Re: Sell Nike,Jordan,Air force 1 sneaker

Postby Lex » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:10 pm

sneakersupplier wrote:*zot*


Sir, you are Satan. Get thee hence, vile fiend!

Somebody ban this putz.
User avatar
Lex
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 732
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:34 pm
Location: A top-secret underground llama lair.

Re: Sell Nike,Jordan,Air force 1 sneaker

Postby annis » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:24 pm

Lex wrote:
sneakersupplier wrote:*zot*


Somebody ban this putz.


Lex, if you quote the spammer, you somewhat reduce the effect of me banning them. ;)

I almost always notice these within a day. No need to reply to them unless you've seen something older than a day, and then you should pester me or Jeff directly.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA


Return to Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 13 guests