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Lingua Latina Blues

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Lingua Latina Blues

Postby wongallo » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:06 am

Dear all;

I have gotten to ch. XXX in Lingua Latina, but I find myself having a lot of difficulty with the subjunctive. I sort of feel like months of effort have slowly come crashing to a halt, and this has started to really frustrate me. Do any of you know where I can find an accessible explanation of subjunctive usage? Ideally, it should sort of complement what Lingua Latina introduces thus far.


Thanks
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Postby MarcusE » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:56 pm

I just started that chapter myself last night while reading in bed. I'm hoping the years I've spent wrestling with the Spanish subjunctive will help me out here though I can see already that it's a bit different from the Spanish. So I too am interested in the response to this.
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Postby Bretonus » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:59 pm

I struggled with the subjunctive at first, especially with the preposition cum it made no sense to me, but managed to get through it with some help from the people here. But what part of the subjunctive gives you a problem? Just its overall meaning or the relation words like ut and cum have with it?
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Postby wongallo » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:20 pm

I am having trouble with its overall usage. Also with relation to words like cum and ut.
I am looking for a grammar that maps out the subjunctive and its uses. Until then I willl keep reading, and perhaps it may just "click."


thanks
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Postby modus.irrealis » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:50 pm

There's some concise information about the subjunctive in Overview of Latin Syntax by Anne Mahoney -- it might be too concise as an introduction but it does have links to fuller explanations from Allen & Greenough's grammar, which is another possible source of information but I'd imagine it's overload for starting out.

Have you taken a look at textbooks like D'Ooge's? I remember using Wheelock as a reference for the subjunctive since it gives decent explanations for the essential stuff you need to know.
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Postby Bretonus » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:34 pm

Although it gave me terrible translations, one very rough method I used at first with ut was to just ignore it was there and put the subjunctive verb in an infinitive.

So for chapter XXVII "Dominus imperat ut colonus accedat." I would just translate it as "the master orders the farmer to approach." Further down the page "Impero tibi ut mercedem solvas" I would roughly translate to "I order you to pay your rent." This method doesn't always work but it helps you understand the meaning. You'll acquire a far greater understanding of the subjunctive the more you read.

Here's some help I got for cum.

http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... ght=#66639

Vale
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Re: Lingua Latina Blues

Postby Alex Sheremet » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:09 am

wongallo wrote:Dear all;

I have gotten to ch. XXX in Lingua Latina, but I find myself having a lot of difficulty with the subjunctive. I sort of feel like months of effort have slowly come crashing to a halt, and this has started to really frustrate me. Do any of you know where I can find an accessible explanation of subjunctive usage? Ideally, it should sort of complement what Lingua Latina introduces thus far.


Thanks


Although LL (and Adler!) is probably the best way to learn Latin, you still need other books, esp. for grammar. If you're looking for accessibility, try Wheelock's chapters on the subjunctive, cum, etc., or even the Oxford course, volume III.

In general, LL does this:

1. Subjunctive with cum = if "cum" means "when" in past time, the indicative clause is past tense, and the other is past subjunctive

2. Subjunctive with ut = no need to ignore "ut," although "to" is a good, quick translation of the purpose clause.. so, indicative clause + "ut" indicating purpose, followed by the subjunctive, e.g. "vivimus ut discamus," "we live to learn," or "we live in order to learn."

I forget if LL Pars I has other coverage of the subjunctive, like with "dum," and more complex usage, but those two are the most common, in different tenses. So for more practice, get one of those larger grammars (Wheelock, or a standard grammar like Greenough's), look over the exercises, and make up your own exercises.
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