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My Comenius Project

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My Comenius Project

Postby metrodorus » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:33 pm

As I am getting near to the end of Adler's Grammar - and my speed at marking up the text is increasing, I am looking forward to my next project, connected with providing online audio resources for someone wishing to become fluent . And so, with an eye on the next step in developing my Latinity, I have started to make preparations for phase II:

Latinum’s Comenius Project

Project Outline August 2008



John Amos Comenius ( March 28, 1592 – November 15, 1670) was a European Educator, who wrote an important series of school textbooks. These were textbooks covering the complete curriculum, as Comenius conceived of it. His view was that an education should be both universal and encyclopaedic. The textbooks were written in Latin, and come in a gradated series. The aim of these textbooks was to get the students to become fluent in Latin, as school was taught in Latin - but the textbooks were not LATIN textbooks, but general schoolbooks, covering the subjects we now recognise as history, politics, the sciences, &c.

As such, these books are of enormous utility to the student of Latin, as they cover areas of knowledge with which we are somewhat familiar, and they provide a wealth of vocabulary, and knowledge about real things in the world – while at the same time giving us an insight into the mindset of the Renaissance, in a manner that no amount of academic study can give us – for by studying the course outlined by these textbooks, we become one of Comenius’ students, and are transported back in time. At the same time, we build up and strengthen our Latin.

Comenius' textbooks were very famous, and some editions remained in active classroom use until the early 1800's. Most editions are bilingual (Latin plus some other European language, including Hebrew and Classical Greek), some are trilingual or more, with the text running in parallel columns.

The Magna Didactica

LEVEL ONE



The first text Latinum will present will be Comenius’ Orbis Sensualim Pictus.
We will use the first American edition, in English and Latin, as this is available on Google Books.


This book is Comenius' foundation textbook, and it covers in a very basic format, all the main areas of knowledge as they were understood in the seventeenth century – biology, physics, geometry, trades, philosophy, music, recreation, law, politics, etc. This book was written for six to seven year olds, but it serves quite well for adults as well, although each topic is of course only treated in the barest of outlines.

Each lesson is an ‘object lesson’, and all the words given are illustrated in drawings that accompany the lesson, aiding in memory and understanding. The lessons are interesting historically, as they describe the processes of long extinct trades, adding to your store of Latin words related to everyday life.


In order to progress to Comenius’ higher level textbooks, it is necessary to master the vocabulary in the Orbis Pictus – and going through the book seven or eight times will be necessary – possibly more. The Orbis will give you a vocabulary of a few thousand words. Once I have marked the text up for quantity, I will record it.

Several editions of the Orbis Pictus, with parallel translation in a variety of languages (German, Czech etc) can be viewed here as well:
http://www.tulips.tsukuba.ac.jp/pub/tree/comenius.php


LEVEL TWO



The next text in Comenius’ series is the Vestibulum to the Janua Linguarum. This is a very rare text, and no online version of it is available that I am able to access. I have not been able to locate an antique copy either - and even were I to do so, the probable outlay of over £1500 prohibits. If some kind soul finds a copy and buys it for me as a present, I would be most pleased!
In the absence of this text, I will use 1796 text of Johann Georg Lederer: Der Kleine Lateiner. This text follows the outline of the Orbis Pictus very closely, while introducing some material some material from the Janua, and thus serves admirably as the ‘next step up’. This text is in German and Latin.


LEVEL THREE

The Janua Linguarum Reserata Aurea uses the same chapter outlines as the Orbis Sensualim Pictus, but the material is fleshed out in much more detail. The edition I currently have located is in Latin, Classical Greek, and French. I have also purchased a copy of the critical edition, which is a synoptic edition drawn from five editions of this work. Copies of the Janua Linguarum can be viewed as scans at the Comenius Library in Japan. The texts of the Janua are available in a variety of languages - Latin + French + Italian + German + Greek + various Eastern European languages.
http://www.tulips.tsukuba.ac.jp/pub/tree/comenius.php


LEVEL FOUR

This section will be the delightful book called Schola Ludus, where the material of the Janua Linguarum Reserata is presented in short dialogues and ‘plays’ – although these are not dramatic plays, but rather expositions, using conversation. They are, to my mind, reminiscent of a modern radio talk-show or documentary programme. These 'theatrical presentations' develop the educational themes in the Janua in more depth. This text is available online as individual photographs of the pages, and can be found at the Japanese archive of Comenius texts as well.
http://www.tulips.tsukuba.ac.jp/pub/tree/comenius.php


LEVEL FIVE


The Atrium.
If I ever complete the project to this point, I will record what survives of Comenius' Atrium.
Comenius also produced a students' Latino-Latinum dictionary as part of his grand project. If this were ever reprinted, it would be a great service as no such dictionary exists in print at present.
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Postby adrianus » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:45 pm

Sic fortuna omnium virorum praeclarorum atque eruditorum principiumque: deductores suos pati, bono gloriâque, magno labore partâ nunc facilè transmotâ, impulsos.
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Postby Amadeus » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:57 pm

Ah, metrodore! A most excellent and commendable enterprise! :D

***

EDIT: Mmm mmm! What a delight this is! Right from the beginning a gem of a quote: "Quid sit eruditum esse? Nosse rerum differentias & posse unumquodque suo designare vel insignire nomine." Very scholastic. 8)
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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Postby Amadeus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:58 pm

Here are a few links of interest related to Comenius:

http://www.archive.org/details/orbispictusofjoh00come The Orbis Pictus in DjVu and PDF

http://www.grexlat.com/biblio/comenius/ HTML version of the same (incomplete)

http://www.uned.es/manesvirtual/Histori ... ctusAA.htm Yet another version

http://iconics.cehd.umn.edu/Orbis/Default.htm About Comenius' paedagogia

Valete! :wink:
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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Postby thesaurus » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:06 am

Looks very interesting. I was actually just reading through Orbis pictus the other day in the library. I was unaware he had these other textbooks. I will try to look into finding the second volume and making scans of it somewhere.

What structure do you envision your lessons taking? Are they to be recorded as now?
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Comenius

Postby metrodorus » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:59 am

I simply plan to record the Latin, to listen to while you read along - especially with the Orbis, this is useful, as so many parallel translations exist in so many languages. So, the format will be somewhat different to the Adler lessons.

With the Janua, I will do the same thing - simply read the text.

My work will consist mainly of marking up the texts for quantity before recording.

It will be a different type of project to Adler, which I have recorded with a very intensive methodology.

I am assuming the student will have completed the Adler course before they try to tackle Comenius - although even a raw beginner could follow along with Comenius, and learn quite a lot simply through immersion and intuition.

The Schola Ludus will be in Latin only. There are some translations of it around - in Czech, and perhaps in German. Not sure if it has been translated into English.

The other text by Comenius I want to see in print is his lexicon Latino-Latinum Atriale.
I have written to a museum in the Czech republic that holds a copy, asking for a scan to be made for me. Hopefully I will get one.
.
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Postby Interaxus » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:45 pm

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Postby Amadeus » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:18 am

Interaxus wrote:10. By the way, have I spotted the the world’s earliest laptop? :shock: Check out the second of the two larger pictures here: https://www.tulips.tsukuba.ac.jp/mylime ... pageseq=16


Per Iuppiter! Credo te recte dicere! :shock:
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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Postby metrodorus » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:21 am

That coloured version has a lot of textual changes. Later on, it includes electricity, and also steam trains.
It is missing lots of things as well. I verily think you have spotted a laptop, circa 1880.
Excellent.

I will be using restored calssical - this is post-Erasmus, and he advocated this pronunciation, so it was already beginning to make inroads at this time in certain circles. Truth be told, I have no compuntctions about reading even a mediaeval text in Restored Classical.

One option is to work on the images in photoshop, then upload them to lulu.com to print as a comic book, with the pages with pictures in colour.

This is what I plan to do, and then it will become available for anyone.

One concern, is that the Japanese scans are not really of high enough
resolution.

However, they are responsive to suggestions - some of the pages on their scan of schola ludus were mucked up, and I wrote to them, and they corrected the problem.

They also put together that special page with all the comenius stuff with scans in one lion for me....very helpful people indeed.

AND Google Chrome is doing funny things to this text box as I write in it - I get ghost letters.
Odd.
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Postby metrodorus » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:08 pm

The first instalment of my recording of the Orbis Sensualim Pictus has now been posted, with an audio introduction to the Project.

There is a new section on the Latinum sidebar for Comenius.
What is good about these texts, is that they exist in so many languages.
http://latinum.mypodcast.com
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Language Identification

Postby metrodorus » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:56 pm

This edition of the Orbis has many languages. I can identify the Latin, French and German.
What are the other two?

Swet w obrazych
Swiat w Obrazatch
Die Welt in Bildern
Le Monde en Tableaux
Orbis Pictus

Help!
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Postby metrodorus » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:11 pm

I have now acquired a copy of the critical edition of Comenius' Janua Linguarum, and also a critical edition of the Schola Ludus.
Both these books are enjoyable (for me, at any rate) to read, I in particular like Schola Ludus.
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Postby Gonzalo » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:29 pm

Hi,

I am enjoying the first recording which you made. Do you know anything about an Attic edition? I have read anything about it, but I am not sure.

Regards,
Gonzalo
Verus enim amor semper tempore tristi elucescit magis. (Philipp Melanchthon: Decl. de studiis Linguæ Græcæ)
Quin age, si quid habes (P. Vergilii Maronis Ecloga III:52)
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Postby metrodorus » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:34 pm

Thre is a scan of the janua linguarum on the internet archive, with a Greek parallel text.
However, this is a poor scan, and much of the Latin (left column) and French (right column) is truncated. However, the Greek, in the centre, is not.
I think there is also a version of this on the tulips site (the Japanese Univesity site linked above), that is complete.

I've not yet seen the Classical Greek, Hebrew and Turkish editions of the Orbis. Apparently they do exist. There are also versions in Italian, Russian, Hungarian, etc. I expect as google books keeps expanding, they will pop into cyberspace.

Evan.
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Postby Gonzalo » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:52 pm

I have found this and the Greek text seems to be fine (but the text uses many ligatures).
Verus enim amor semper tempore tristi elucescit magis. (Philipp Melanchthon: Decl. de studiis Linguæ Græcæ)
Quin age, si quid habes (P. Vergilii Maronis Ecloga III:52)
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Postby Amadeus » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:21 pm

Gonzalo wrote:I have found this


*Mouth watering* Could someone hand me a towel? :lol:
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby metrodorus » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:35 pm

Yes, this is the version I referred to. You found it!
There are also a few variant texts of the Orbis on the internet archive.
It is quite a famous translation into Classical Greek. There is a different scan of the same text on the tulips site, not as a pdf, but as photographs of the pages.
It is typeset very beautifully in the Greek.
Evan.
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Postby Interaxus » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:43 pm

Until someone better informed responds …

Swiat w Obrazatch? Well, the Polish Wikipedia has ‘Swiat w obrazach’:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_%C3%81 ... ensk%C3%BD

The Czech Wikipedia has ‘Svet v obrazech’:
http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Amos_Komensk%C3%BD

which is pretty close to‘swet w Obrazych’. But whether Comenii ‘Bohemian’ is closer to Czech or Slovak I’ve no idea. All three - Czech, Slovak and Polish – belong to the same West Slavic family.

Cheers,
Int
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Postby metrodorus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:45 am

Thanks! That is helpful. I suspected one was Czech, the other, I had no idea.
I've recorded a few more chapters - up to Chapter 19 now.
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Postby metrodorus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:12 am

A professor at a university in the USA has located a copy of the Vestibulum for me, which I now have in digitaql form.
It is similar to the Orbis Sensualim Pictus, but one tiny step further up the ladder.
. The advantage of all these texts, is that they teach the same subject matter, simply each subsequent level expands a bit more on what was learned in the earlier text.
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Postby Amadeus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:15 pm

metrodorus wrote:A professor at a university in the USA has located a copy of the Vestibulum for me, which I now have in digitaql form.
It is similar to the Orbis Sensualim Pictus, but one tiny step further up the ladder.


Cool! Will you be able to share these scans or are you prohibited from doing so?
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby metrodorus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:46 pm

The Vestibulum is not a very long text. I'm not sure where the original came from. If it was from EEBO then it can't be republished, but the text is short enough to type out, which I could easily do.
All the other Comenius texts I will eventually use,
are available online in one form or another.
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Postby Interaxus » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:31 am

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Postby Interaxus » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:45 am

Just happened to google ‘Orbis Pictus’ and came to a Wikipedia entry with these External Links:

A clean Latin-only version:
http://www.grexlat.com/biblio/comenius/index.html

An absolutely must-see creative bombshell:
http://latintextbook.com/default.aspx

Their basic concept and presentational/pedagogical skills are so good and their Latin skills so abysmal (translation howlers galore!) that someone really should help them get their linguistic act together. O tempora O mores. So long as it LOOKS good, who cares …? But learners who already know A LITTLE real Latin can gain A LOT from this site.

And a 1777 version:
http://books.google.com/books?id=pxkaVd ... 1#PPA13,M1

This one includes the Diluvium (The Deluge) with its pre-Darwinian fishbones-on-mountains Bible-proofs (chapter IX). I too would have been a creationist in those days… :cry:

Cheers,
Int
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Postby metrodorus » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:46 pm

Hello,
Pleased you're enjoying my readings. They're better now than they used to be, that's the effect of a few hundred hours in front of a microphone, reading Latin.

The edition of the Kleine Lateiner has a vocabulary list at the end of each chapter, with the quantities of most of the words used in the Orbis. Some care is needed, as ideas about quantity have changed a little over time, but I generally use that. Also, one of the editions of the Orbis on the Japanese site has a word list along with each page, giving quantities, and also the full grammatical forms of each word - quite useful.

I am surprised by the enthusiastic reception Comenius is getting - I thought this would just be a little obsession of mine - but apparently Comenius remains as popular as ever.
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Postby Amadeus » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:05 pm

metrodorus wrote:I am surprised by the enthusiastic reception Comenius is getting ... apparently Comenius remains as popular as ever.


That's because of his "fresh" approach to teaching Latin, even though he lived around 400 years ago! :D
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby metrodorus » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:57 pm

Interaxus - if you google in google images for the Orbis Pictus, many more pictures come up from editions that do not have scans on google books. Some of these pictures are really pretty. Part of the appeal for me, is the artwork.
Evan.
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Vestibulum

Postby metrodorus » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:34 pm

I have put the first part of the Vestibulum online. It is not a very long text, but I am only working on it fitfully.

There is a Latin-English section, and then a Latin only.

This is a simple text, and would be suitable for teaching to children (It was written for 5-6 year olds)

It introduced a lot of vocabulary and basic concepts about the world.

I have removed by first recordings of the Orbis - one or two errors of quantity - I will re-record these. There will, inevitably, be the odd slip up - just point them out to me, and if I deem them serious enough, I will re-record the offending episode.
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Re: Vestibulum

Postby Amadeus » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:12 pm

metrodorus wrote:I have removed by first recordings of the Orbis - one or two errors of quantity - I will re-record these.


Yeah, I'd been wandering about that. Thanks for clarifying. :)
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Vestibulum

Postby metrodorus » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:26 am

Remember I said I could not find a copy of the vestibulum - I now have a digital copy of it, and I have put a link to the pdf on Latinum in the Comenius section.

Evan.
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Postby metrodorus » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:31 pm

Comenius has now made it to YouTube with this short video. I have also recorded chapter five of the Orbis in Video...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bV380w4yY6o
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Postby tjnor » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:02 pm

Comenius has now made it to YouTube with this short video. I have also recorded chapter five of the Orbis in Video...


YouTube says that the video has been removed by you. Are you re-recording?
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Postby metrodorus » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:52 pm

Yes, I'll re-make it. I put an incorrect quantity on a verb.
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