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M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

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M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby mariek » Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:53 pm

<br />De natura animae nec cum poeta senseram nec sententiam mutare optaveram.<br />The souls neither agreed with the poets nor desired to change opinion about nature.<br /><br />This sentence doesn't make sense to me. Did I translate it incorrectly?<br /><br />I'm not sure how "souls" would agree or disaree with "poets", or how "souls" could change their "opinion" about anything.<br /><br />senseram = pluperfect<br />optaveram = pluperfect<br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby phil » Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:38 pm

OK this is probably going to show why beginners shouldn't post answers, but here goes:<br /><br /><<De natura animae nec cum poeta senseram nec sententiam mutare optaveram.>><br /><br />About the nature of the soul, neither with the poet I had felt, nor my opinion to change had I chosen . "I neither agreed with the poet, nor was I going to change my mind about the nature of the soul."<br /><br />De natura animae - animae I think is genitive.<br />Cheers<br /><br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby mariek » Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:35 pm

Phil wrote:<br />De natura animae - animae I think is genitive.
<br /><br />You just pointed out something I never saw when I was staring at this sentence. That makes perfect sense now. Why didn't I see it the first time around? "About the nature of the soul" is so obvious now.<br /><br /><br />
<br />About the nature of the soul, neither with the poet I had felt, nor my opinion to change had I chosen . "I neither agreed with the poet, nor was I going to change my mind about the nature of the soul."
<br /><br />I just noticed my other mistake! I was so engrossed in trying to figure out what the verb tenses are that I totally "forgot" that they were both 1st person singular. And what led to my downfall was my determination to make animae a subject of the sentence. <br /><br />Now that I've been enlightened, your translation is so clear! Thanks!<br /><br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby benissimus » Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:45 pm

I have a slightly different interpretation, if you do not mind ;)<br /><br />De natura animae nec cum poeta senseram nec sententiam mutare optaveram.<br /><br />Concerning the nature of the soul, I had neither agreed with the poet, nor had I desired to change his opinion.<br /><br />(cum...sentio= consentio = to agree)
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby phil » Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:55 pm

OK, opto, -are can also mean to desire (just looked it up!), and I agree, not wanting to change the poet's mind does make more sense. That Roman habit of ommitting possessives confuses me at times. I just wish they'd thrown more meums, tuums and eiuses into their work!<br /><br />Cheers
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby mariek » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:14 am

benissimus wrote:<br />Concerning the nature of the soul, I had neither agreed with the poet, nor had I desired to change his opinion.
<br /><br />Your sentence is so much more elegant. But I'd like to know what clued you in to it being "his opinion" vs "my opinion".<br /><br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby mariek » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:15 am

Phil wrote:<br />That Roman habit of ommitting possessives confuses me at times.
<br /><br />Yes! It's one of the many things I have trouble with. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this...<br /><br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby Keesa » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:19 am

mariek wrote:<br /><br />Yes! It's one of the many things I have trouble with. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this...<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />Oh, you're not. Believe me, you're not! :)
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby benissimus » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:25 am

Good question... let me think about it...<br /><br />Ok, the tricky thing about implied possession is that it typically hints back to something that was mentioned previously in the context (in this case in the same sentence). According to my translation, although Phil's was also correct but perhaps not the same meaning as the author was going for, the sentence is literally:<br /><br />"Concerning the nature of the soul, I had neither felt with the poet, nor had I desired to change the opinion."<br /><br />Now this could be "his opinion" or "my opinion" or just "an opinion", but you should take note that in the first part of the sentence he openly says that he does not agree with the poet. He then says he does not desire to change "an opinion"... so whose opinion would he not want to change? It just seems to make more sense that "he doesn't agree, but he doesn't want to change his mind". It's just a good connection I think.
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby mariek » Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:24 am

<br />Ah... when you explain it that way, it seems logical. Thanks for walking me through the thought process.<br /><br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby Episcopus » Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:02 pm

heh I agree Phil ;) It's my fault too!<br /><br />When I saw mariek's translation I felt bad, I didn't understand why it was in that way!
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby mariek » Thu Sep 25, 2003 8:53 pm

<br />Remember, I'm not a "quick study" like you are...<br /><br />Now that I know what the sentence means, I have to wonder, what in the world was I thinking when I tried to translate it the first time around??<br /><br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby Episcopus » Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:26 pm

alas! I always say things badly. <br /><br />mariek I guarantee that you have made quicker progress than I. Don't put yourself down or say me to be much faster than I actually am! ;)
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby mariek » Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:27 am

Episcopus wrote:<br />alas! I always say things badly. <br />
<br /><br />J'ai mal compris ce que vous avez dit. :( It's just like when I misread your message about finishing Latin for Beginners in 3 months instead of 6 months. I guess I have a reading handicap ... it doesn't matter whether it's in Latin or English! :-\<br /><br /><br />
<br />mariek I guarantee that you have made quicker progress than I.
<br /><br />I doubt it. There was a month long hiatus while I was doing work-related studies and projects. And while you've been studying regularly and learning all sorts of new things, I'm still stuck at 1st declension nouns, and a smattering of verb tenses.<br /><br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby Keesa » Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:20 am

mariek wrote:<br />
<br />mariek I guarantee that you have made quicker progress than I.
<br /><br />I doubt it. There was a month long hiatus while I was doing work-related studies and projects. And while you've been studying regularly and learning all sorts of new things, I'm still stuck at 1st declension nouns, and a smattering of verb tenses.<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />There! Now Episcopus can't scold me for only just finishing the first declension! ;D Personally, though, I think we're all doing really well. In fact, I would say that anyone who studies Latin, regardless of how long it takes them to complete a chapter or how well they understand it, is doing well just to study it.
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby mariek » Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:22 am

<br />Yes, we all learn at our own pace. And it's definitely not a race to see who can finish fastest. Thank goodness! :)<br /><br />I find that Textkit helps keep me motivated to continue with my Latin studies. I never would have started if it hadn't been for the Latin grammars available for download on this site. My adventure with Latin started with D'Ooge's Latin for Beginners, which is an excellent book for anyone who wants to learn Latin. However, I have since moved on to Latin: An Intensive Course whose format appeals to me a little bit more.<br /><br />This forum has been a great source of information and a place for me to sort out anything I'm confused about (and there's a lot of that, as you can all tell!). <br /><br />
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Re:M&F Unit2 Pg45 #13

Postby Episcopus » Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:46 pm

I've done all the declensions and the 3rd declension is phenomenally fascinating. Although the i-stems may be somewhat evil!<br />We are all still classed as beginners and in the same boat.<br /><br />I must learn faster for a reason now.
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