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Two sentences from Lingua Latina

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Two sentences from Lingua Latina

Postby anantah » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:18 pm

Dear All,

I just encountered two confusing sentences in Orberg's book. As I didn't find the answer in my poor grammar, I hope you can help me with them.

1. Feminae gemmis et margaritis anulisque ornantur. (Cap. VIII)
Here "et" and "que" are combined. I think "gemmis et margaritis et anulis" must also be right, but is there any difference (in style etc.) between the two?

2. "Esse" quoque et "Ä“sse" infinitivus est. (Cap. X grammar)
Why is the verb singular here? Doesn't "quoque et" make a plural subject?

Thanks a lot.



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Re: Two sentences from Lingua Latina

Postby Twpsyn » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:28 pm

1. Feminae gemmis et margaritis anulisque ornantur. (Cap. VIII)
Here "et" and "que" are combined. I think "gemmis et margaritis et anulis" must also be right, but is there any difference (in style etc.) between the two?


Not really. The first one sounds better because et ... et ... et gets repetitive, but both are correct.

2. "Esse" quoque et "Ä“sse" infinitivus est. (Cap. X grammar)
Why is the verb singular here? Doesn't "quoque et" make a plural subject?


Compound subjects often take singular verbs, especially if (as in this case) the components of the compound subject are singular.
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Postby anantah » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:52 pm

Thanks Twpsyn! Now it's clear and I should read more in order to get a better feeling of Latin.
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Postby femina_argentea » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:15 pm

Also, I believe et...et is translated as both...and if the first et is at the beginning, so best to avoid et...et unless that is what you actually want to write, I think. Otherwise, a reader could be confused, and have to parse the sentence a second time to understand its meaning.

Well, that's why I always am careful to use -que if it's a successive and in the sentence. That, and the word et gets repetitive pretty fast, just as and does in an English composition.
Please correct any grammatical mistakes. Please!
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Postby adrianus » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:09 pm

Hi, femina_argentea.

If I understand you correctly, I think you are suggesting that "et...et" means "both...and" but "et...que" doesn't. Unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't matter what word you use, the sense of "both...and" comes from having "et" or "ac" or "atque" or even enclitic "que" attached to the first word in a series. That doesn't apply above, mind you, because there you have three items and two ands.
So "gemmis et margaritis et anulis" and "gemmis et margaritis anulisque" both translate as "by jewels, pearls and rings". However, "et gemmis atque margaritis anulisque" translates as "by not just jewels but pearls and rings" or "by at the same time jewels, pearls and rings" (I know you wouldn't like to say "by both jewels, pearls and rings").

Si benè, femina_argentea, te intellego, "et...et" latinè "both...and" anglicè velle dicere denotas, cùm aliter "et...que". Nisi fallor, et "et...et" et "et...que" (:D) idem significat. Sensus formae "both...and" anglicè è verborum ordine detrahit, cum ad primum seriei elementum vel "et" vel "ac" vel "atque" vel "que" quidem encliticum adicitur. Qui casus suprà non est, verùm dicere, ubi duabus conjunctionibus conjuncta tria elementa habes.
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Postby femina_argentea » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:25 pm

adrianus

Don't worry, it's me who is mistaken, not you. Looks like I misunderstood my textbook.

Well, I'm happy, for I have learnt something today!
Please correct any grammatical mistakes. Please!
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