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Grammar questions

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Grammar questions

Postby hh12345 » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:02 pm

Hello,

I have a couple of Latin grammar questions that I'd be very happy if anyone could help explain to me.

"Cum essent hae nuptiae plenae dignitatis plenae concordiae, repente est exorta mulieris importunae nefaria libido, non solum dedecore verum etiam scelere coniuncta."

-I understand the general meaning here perfectly, but I'm having trouble in defining the verb part, ie "est exorta". Exorta is from the deponent verb exorior (arise, spring forth), and I assume it is perfect participle, agreeing with libido (f sg). But what is the role of "est" and how do "est" and "exorta" fit together? The best I can get out of this is something like "...suddenly, the sinful lust of a shameless woman is arisen..." (Or is it a perfect passive participle turned upside down - ie with "est" first and then the participle??)
-And secondly, what would be the meaning and case of "verum" in the last part? "...connected/combined not only with infamy (verum??) but also with crime."

"Is cum esset mortuus..."

-This obviuosly means something like... When he was dead, when he had died... Esset is fine, imperfect active subjunctive, subjunctive because of cum. "mortuus" however, is that simply a predicate adjective/perfect participle?

-And a related question, that I hope makes some sense: Does the rule of active meaning of the passive form for deponent verbs also apply to the participles of such verbs (eg mortuus above)?

Thanks a lot! I'd appreciate any feedback very much. :)
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Postby euripides » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:53 pm

I wondered if anyone would post questions about Cicero here. Mackay would probably have a fit if he knew.

"est exorta" & "esset mortuus": review the perfect/pluperfect tense of deponent verbs. Remember that deponents have passive forms but active meanings.

"verum" is an emphatic version of "sed"
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Postby vir litterarum » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:01 am

You are incorrect about "esset" being imperfect subjunctive. When any form of "essem,-es, etc." is joined with the perfect passive participle in periphrasis, it represents the pluperfect, not the imperfect tense.

participles of deponent of verbs are also active. The only exception is the gerundive, or the future passive participle.
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Postby Junya » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:06 am

Hi.

Exorta is from the deponent verb exorior (arise, spring forth), and I assume it is perfect participle, agreeing with libido (f sg). But what is the role of "est" and how do "est" and "exorta" fit together?


The perfect active of deponent verbs forms like,
past participle + sum, es, est.....

So, "exorta est" means "has arisen".

"...suddenly, the sinful lust of a shameless woman is arisen..."


is ok, just the difference of "is arisen" and "has arisen".
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