Lex wrote:Kasper wrote:
If there is nothing else but illusion, how are illusions not true?
This question isn't as silly as it first sounds, IMHO.
Thank you.
However like you, I do not believe it either. I am merely making the argument because for some reason it does attract me as an interesting thought.
Let's say we are all in an "illusionary" world like in The Matrix, but there is no "red pill" to take us to a "real world" behind the Matrix. Then the Matrix is the only reality, and does not contradict anything else. Then how can it be a lie?
That, I think, is different from the situation where there is no real world, but existence is limited to the visions, or dreams, etc, that pass through our ‘minds eye’. If there is a real world underneath our illusory sensory experience, than illusions are still lies, even if we cannot perceive the nature or extent of the lie because we cannot compare the illusion to the real world.
It may be a feature of some sects to induce their members to believe that the world outside is evil and out to get them. The members may accept this illusion as truth, but their inability to access the ‘real’ truth does not mean that the illusion has become the truth. It remains a lie.
And, how can we know that there is a "real world" behind the sensory world that we experience everyday? How can we know that we are not in such a Matrix? What if we are pure spirit, with only thought and a consensual hallucination we call "reality"?
In the first instance, I don’t think that we can know the real world, and as per your previous post, we really have no option but to accept the illusion as reality. The practical implication of refusing to do so could be quite severe, however courageous (of course there is a thin line between courage and stupidity).
In the second instance, I think these are hallucination are reality, and not a substitute.
Yeah, yeah, I don't believe any of that either. But, I can't prove that it isn't true. I can say, however, that if you are that sceptical about substance or reality, then you should also be as sceptical about others (including God) and not accept their existence either. That would result in solipsism, with you being the only individual in existence (and maybe you are God). Either you go with the logic and accept solipsism, or you consider that it has concluded a reductio ad absurdum argument that shows that, with respect to such extreme scepticism, "that way madness lies".
I’m not sure whether I believe it, but like you I cannot prove it either way. I would not consider it a negative however if it were so.
It raises interesting questions about individual mental control over our perception of reality. If we could accept that all that we experience exists only in our minds, than why can we not control the way in which this affects us, e.g. emotionally? In the extreme this may lead to some catatonic state, to be avoided for sure, but on the other hand it may provide a balance to the position of ‘I can’t help how I feel’. Can’t you? Is there no choice in the impact of (illusory) perception on our state of mind?
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