Textkit Logo

How in the world do you pronounce this?

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

How in the world do you pronounce this?

Postby Eurysilas » Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:32 am

Heya. Just learned the word "cito", and I was wondering, how the heck do you pronounce it? The "o" is hanging me up; I want to pronounce it as a long "o", even though it's marked short (I trip up when I try to pronounce it as a short "o". It feels awkward). Now, from what I'm hearing in the Wheelock sound recordings, I know there are certain instances where a vowel is pronounced long even if it's not marked (saepe's end "e" and the "e" in the suffix "re"), so is this one of those times?

Also, any sites with good recordings of Latin would be appreciated.
User avatar
Eurysilas
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:28 am
Location: Missouri, United States of America, North America

Postby adrianus » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:32 am

Salve Eurysilas

Both vowels are short and should be pronounced short, but many people do speak it otherwise. Ironically but genuinely, the answer is to pronounce it quickly (fast), I would say.
Utra vocalis in "citò" adverbo brevis est et ità sonari debet, etsi multes qui aliter enuntiant. Ironicè at sincerè, si id citò (festinatò) enuntiabis, verbum benè sonabitur, meâ sententiâ.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: How in the world do you pronounce this?

Postby Alatius » Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:08 pm

Eurysilas wrote:Now, from what I'm hearing in the Wheelock sound recordings, I know there are certain instances where a vowel is pronounced long even if it's not marked (saepe's end "e" and the "e" in the suffix "re"), so is this one of those times?

Are you refering to the sound files found at this site:
http://wheelockslatin.com/chapters/intr ... ction.html ?

The simple answer is that they are not perfect. Saepe shall end in a short vowel, [É›]. I am unsure of what suffix "re" you are talking about, but if it is not marked with a macron in dictionaries or grammars, it should have a short vowel too. If you hear it pronounced differently, that only means the speaker has an accent.

Especially his pronunciation of the nasal vowel in "-um" is way off, and as a result of that, the advice on how to pronounce short "u" is outright bizzare: "[o] as in [pʰʊt]: [tɔ̃], [sɔ̃]". First, the examples should of course include a word where the vowel is not nasalized, but there is no reason to think that the nasal vowels would have any other quality than the regular ones. Anything between [ʊ] and [u] would be fine, in my opinion.
Alatius
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 11:21 am
Location: Upsalia, Suecia

Re: How in the world do you pronounce this?

Postby Twpsyn » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:53 pm

Alatius wrote:Especially his pronunciation of the nasal vowel in "-um" is way off, and as a result of that, the advice on how to pronounce short "u" is outright bizzare: "[o] as in [pʰʊt]: [tɔ̃], [sɔ̃]"


It sounds like he says '[ÊŠ] as in [pÊŠt]' to me (but that first vowel is quite smudged), but his tum and sum were very odd.

So yes, pronounce things as they are marked. Doing otherwise leads only to gloom and confusion.
Twpsyn
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:30 am
Location: Head: in the clouds

Postby Eurysilas » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:03 am

Well, I really only want to approximate the sounds, but getting more of it right is preferable to getting less of it right, of course. Are there any sites you guys know of that speak good Latin, for a comparison to Wheelock's?
User avatar
Eurysilas
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:28 am
Location: Missouri, United States of America, North America

Re: How in the world do you pronounce this?

Postby Alatius » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:28 pm

Twpsyn wrote:It sounds like he says '[ÊŠ] as in [pÊŠt]' to me (but that first vowel is quite smudged), but his tum and sum were very odd.

Yes, you may be right. There is not much aspiration there.

Eurysilas wrote:Are there any sites you guys know of that speak good Latin, for a comparison to Wheelock's?

I have collected a bunch of links to different sites offering Latin recordings; the pronunciations vary some, but all of them aim at a reconstructed classical pronunciation:
http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/latin/
Alatius
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 11:21 am
Location: Upsalia, Suecia

Postby Eurysilas » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:20 am

Thanks, Alatius! I'll check those out.
User avatar
Eurysilas
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:28 am
Location: Missouri, United States of America, North America

Postby calvinist » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:46 am

I am unsure of what suffix "re" you are talking about, but if it is not marked with a macron in dictionaries or grammars, it should have a short vowel too.


I'm assuming it's the active infinitive ending.
User avatar
calvinist
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:24 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Postby MarcusE » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:17 pm

Is it reasonable to suppose that with words ending in a short o in latin, the o is pronounced like in words ending in o in spanish? In spanish with words like gato, pero, etc. The final o is quite short with little aspiration, not at all like the way English speakers would say Bilbo or bimbo, where the o is accompanied by plenty of air and is extended. Is that a close enough approximation?
MarcusE
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:26 pm


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hlawson38, swtwentyman and 49 guests