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suus and eius

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suus and eius

Postby little flower » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:19 pm

salve
another point from exercitia 1. this has probably been answered already but i cant be bothered looking it up. what are the correct pronoun / adj forms for these two sentences (ch 4 ,ex 5) and why.?

adestne servus iulii? servus _____ adest.
in sacculo _______ pecunia non est , sacculus ______ vacuus est.

thanks
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Postby Kasper » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:11 am

Well, what do you think?
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suus etc

Postby little flower » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:15 pm

hi kaspar
i dont know .the first one seems to be saying that his (somebody elses servant) is present.(i have the answers.)does this mean a bad servant doesnt count.?
number two seems to be saying that from the point of view of julius the bag is empty
what i need is a rule or method which can apply in all situations.i havent found it in teach yourself or wheelock yet.maybe i havent done enough of the exercises.all help appreciated.

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Postby bedwere » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:43 pm

If the thing/person belongs to the subject of the phrase, use suus-a-um, otherwise use ejus.

Give it a try!
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Postby adrianus » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:32 pm

It's as Bedwere says, Little Flower: "suus -a um" is reflexive, referring to the subject of the sentence. "Eius" isn't. So I hazard:
"Is Julius's servant here? His servant is." [And not: "His own servant is here."]
"There is no money is his bag, his bag is empty." [the comma here confuses me!]
Just think about resolving any ambiguity by imagining "his own and not anyone else's" = "suus -a -um".

Ut dicit Bedwere, Floscule, "suus -a -um" reflexum sensum habet, id est, sententiae ideaeve subjectivo refert; "euus -a -um" irreflexum, id est, alio quàm subjectivo refert.
Ergô, ut puto,
"adestne servus iulii? servus eius adest."
"in sacculo eius pecunia non est, sacculus eius vacuus est."
[Haec comma me conturbat!]
Casu ambiguitatis, ostenditur quòd "suus -a -um" congruens est.

Little Flower wrote:the first one seems to be saying that his (somebody elses servant) is present.
The subject of the verb "adest" is NOT Julius, it is "servus", so use "eius". Otherwise, "Julius dicit servum suum adesse", "Julius says that his [own] servant is present."
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Postby little flower » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:56 pm

thanks folks
i havent understood it yet but i,ll work on it. something for dr ann (my tutor) to clarify after her vacation.

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Postby Essorant » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:46 am

The verb is the key. In the first example the subject of the verb <b>adest</b> is <b>servus</b>. Is it the servant's servant you are talking about? Nope. Therefore you may know it must be <b>eius</b>

In the second example, the subject of the first <b>est</b> is <b>pecunia</b> and the subject of the second <b>est</b> is <b>sacculus</b>. Is the money the owner of the sack? Is the sack the owner of the sack? No. Therefore, again, I believe we may know it must be <b>eius</b> as well.<pre> </pre>
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