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Verify translations

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Verify translations

Postby Boban » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:31 pm

1) God Mars didn't want to protect descendants of Rhea Silvia.
Deus Mars prolem Rheae Silviae protegere non cupiebat.

2) Neptun was master of sea and sea animals.
Neptunus dominus maris et marinum animalium erat.

3) Marcus Cato, miraculous example of Roman citizen, had many virtues.
Marco Cati, mirabilis exemplar Romani civis, erat multas virtutes.

4) Students will know many examples of bravery of Roman citizens.
Discipulis cognoscere multa exemplaria fortitudinum Romanorum civium erunt.
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Re: Verify translations

Postby thesaurus » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:59 pm

Boban wrote:1) God Mars didn't want to protect descendants of Rhea Silvia.
Deus Mars prolem Rheae Silviae protegere non cupiebat.

2) Neptun was master of sea and sea animals.
Neptunus dominus maris et marinum animalium erat.

3) Marcus Cato, miraculous example of Roman citizen, had many virtues.
Marco Cati, mirabilis exemplar Romani civis, erat multas virtutes.

4) Students will know many examples of bravery of Roman citizens.
Discipulis cognoscere multa exemplaria fortitudinum Romanorum civium erunt.


The first three look good. But I'm unsure about the fourth sentence. I guess discipluis here is a dative, as in "there will be many examples of the bravery of Roman citizens for students to know." To match your translation, I'd expect something like "Discipuli multa exemplaria... cognoscent," but here we have a future form of the verb "esse," so the exemplaria must be the subject.

Regarding the English, you'll want a few more articles in there. Namely, "Cato, a miraculous example...", "the God Mars," and "master of the sea." I understand articles can be difficult for speakers of some languages, so don't worry.

Keep up the good work Boban.
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Re: Verify translations

Postby Boban » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:41 pm

thesaurus wrote:
Boban wrote:1) God Mars didn't want to protect descendants of Rhea Silvia.
Deus Mars prolem Rheae Silviae protegere non cupiebat.

2) Neptun was master of sea and sea animals.
Neptunus dominus maris et marinum animalium erat.

3) Marcus Cato, miraculous example of Roman citizen, had many virtues.
Marco Cati, mirabilis exemplar Romani civis, erat multas virtutes.

4) Students will know many examples of bravery of Roman citizens.
Discipulis cognoscere multa exemplaria fortitudinum Romanorum civium erunt.


The first three look good. But I'm unsure about the fourth sentence. I guess discipluis here is a dative, as in "there will be many examples of the bravery of Roman citizens for students to know." To match your translation, I'd expect something like "Discipuli multa exemplaria... cognoscent," but here we have a future form of the verb "esse," so the exemplaria must be the subject.

Regarding the English, you'll want a few more articles in there. Namely, "Cato, a miraculous example...", "the God Mars," and "master of the sea." I understand articles can be difficult for speakers of some languages, so don't worry.

Keep up the good work Boban.


4th sentence was problematic for me to translate it in English and I understand your doubts.
"There will be many examples of the bravery of Roman citizens for students to know." is closer to what I think is right translation from my language.
What was important for me in Latin translation is phrase "cognoscere erunt". Is grammar there ok, is translation of that "will know"?
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Re: Verify translations

Postby thesaurus » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:55 pm

Boban wrote:
thesaurus wrote:
Boban wrote:1) God Mars didn't want to protect descendants of Rhea Silvia.
Deus Mars prolem Rheae Silviae protegere non cupiebat.

2) Neptun was master of sea and sea animals.
Neptunus dominus maris et marinum animalium erat.

3) Marcus Cato, miraculous example of Roman citizen, had many virtues.
Marco Cati, mirabilis exemplar Romani civis, erat multas virtutes.

4) Students will know many examples of bravery of Roman citizens.
Discipulis cognoscere multa exemplaria fortitudinum Romanorum civium erunt.


The first three look good. But I'm unsure about the fourth sentence. I guess discipluis here is a dative, as in "there will be many examples of the bravery of Roman citizens for students to know." To match your translation, I'd expect something like "Discipuli multa exemplaria... cognoscent," but here we have a future form of the verb "esse," so the exemplaria must be the subject.

Regarding the English, you'll want a few more articles in there. Namely, "Cato, a miraculous example...", "the God Mars," and "master of the sea." I understand articles can be difficult for speakers of some languages, so don't worry.

Keep up the good work Boban.


4th sentence was problematic for me to translate it in English and I understand your doubts.
"There will be many examples of the bravery of Roman citizens for students to know." is closer to what I think is right translation from my language.
What was important for me in Latin translation is phrase "cognoscere erunt". Is grammar there ok, is translation of that "will know"?


As a literal translation, "will know" won't work for "cognoscere erunt," although I understand your confusion. In fact, these two verbs are not joined together in this way. "Cognoscere" is the infinitive that means "to know" and erunt is a finite verb which means "there will be." Putting these together, erunt cognoscere, translates literally as "there will be to know". As you know, the subject of "erunt" in this sentence is "exemplaria" so the sentence is thus: exemplaria erunt cognoscere ("there will be examples to know").

However, as you mentioned, if there are examples for students to know, then it makes sense to think that the students will probably know these examples. Semantically the two phrases are very similar, but they are not identical. If there are examples for students to know, what's relevant is the possibility that the students will know them, although it is possible that they won't. If the students "will know" the examples, then there is no doubt.
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Re: Verify translations

Postby Boban » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

thesaurus wrote:
As a literal translation, "will know" won't work for "cognoscere erunt," although I understand your confusion. In fact, these two verbs are not joined together in this way. "Cognoscere" is the infinitive that means "to know" and erunt is a finite verb which means "there will be." Putting these together, erunt cognoscere, translates literally as "there will be to know". As you know, the subject of "erunt" in this sentence is "exemplaria" so the sentence is thus: exemplaria erunt cognoscere ("there will be examples to know").

However, as you mentioned, if there are examples for students to know, then it makes sense to think that the students will probably know these examples. Semantically the two phrases are very similar, but they are not identical. If there are examples for students to know, what's relevant is the possibility that the students will know them, although it is possible that they won't. If the students "will know" the examples, then there is no doubt.


Exemplaria is not subject (not in English sentence). It is accussative of object. Meaning should be "that students will (without any doubts) know (will be familiar with) examples". Now there is one problem that maybe is confusing you and that is that word "students" is in nominative plural but in my language is in dative plural. I didn't know how exact to translate that sentence and that is the source of problems, unfortunately I can't do anything more at this moment as I need to study English grammar better.

In that sense, translation is as I think: "Discipulis cognoscere exemplaria erunt".
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Re: Verify translations

Postby Twpsyn » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:36 pm

Boban wrote:students will (without any doubts) know (will be familiar with) examples

In that sense, translation is as I think: "Discipulis cognoscere exemplaria erunt".


That is incorrect. Latin is Latin, and in Latin to say 'students will know examples', you must use the future tense of cognoscere.

Discipuli exemplaria cognoscent.
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Postby timeodanaos » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:43 pm

What is your native language, Boban? Someone might be able to help you more directly if they knew your language. I could only help you if you knew German or any of the three Scandinavian languages.

Die Schüler werden die Exempel verstehen.

Eleverne vil komme til at forstå eksemplerne.

Discipuli exempla cognoscent.

The future in Latin, unlike any modern European language, is not a compound tense, but rather one form of the verb.
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