Textkit Logo

Per circuitum

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

Per circuitum

Postby Nooj » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:20 pm

This is from the Vulgate, Job 1:10.

Nonne tu vallasti eum ac domum eius universamque substantiam per circuitum


Haven't you fenced him and all his household and all his wealth...

And I've gotten stuck on per circuitum. I know what it should mean, 'all around' or 'by every way', I'm just unsure of its literal meaning, although I think it's 'all along a circuit'. Any help would be appreciated.
Nooj
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:53 pm

Postby adrianus » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:21 pm

Salve Nooj
According to Lewis & Short ( http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... 99.04.0059 ):
circuitus = the space around a building; circuit, compass, a way around; circling, revolution
per circuitum = all along the perimeter; by a circling--in an encircling way;
vallo -are -avi -atus per circuitum --to hedge on every side (according to one translation), intrench, circumvallate -- synonym for saepio --to hedge or enclose

L&S wrote:circÅ­Ä­tus (circÅ­mÄ­tus , Cic. N. D. 1, 12, 29; 2, 62, 155; 2, 19, 49; id. Rep. 1, 29, 45; Quint. 1, 10, 42 al.; cf. circumeo, and v. Neue, Formenl. 2, p. 737), Å«s, m. [circumeo] (class. in prose and poetry).
I. A going round, a circling, revolving, a revolution: solis, Cic. N. D. 2, 19, 49 ; cf. Plin. 2, 23, 21, § 86; Cic. Rep. 6, 12, 12: nox et dies unum circumitum orbis efflcit, id. Univ. 9 prope med.: Asiae Syriaeque circuitu Aegyptum petit, Suet. Aug. 17 : mundi, Plin. 2, 5, 4, § 11 .--
B. In medic. lang., the periodical return of a disease, Cels. 3, 5; Ser. Samm. 95.--Far more freq.,
II. Meton.
A. (Abstr. pro concr.). A circuit, compass, a way around: plurimum refert, cujus sit formae ille circuitus, Quint. 1, 10, 40 ; cf. id. 1, 10, 42; 1, 5, 26; Augur. ap. Gell. 13, 14, 1: collis, quem propter magnitudinem circuitus opere circumplecti non poterant, Caes. B. G. 7, 83 : illi operibus vincebant, quod interiore spatio minorem circuitum habebant, id. B. C. 3, 44 : XV milia passuum circuitu amplexus, id. ib. ; so id B G. 1, 41; Plin. 4, 12, 19, § 54: brevi per mon tes circuitu praemissis, qui munirent viam, Liv. 34, 28, 2 ; 4, 27, 8; Curt. 3, 11, 19: qualis esset natura montis et qualis in circuitu ascensus, Caes. B. G. 1, 21 ; 2, 29; 2, 30: longo circuitu petere regiones, id. ib. 7, 45 ; Verg. A. 11, 767: saevaque circuitu curvantem bracchia longo, Ov M. 2, 82: circumitus Siciliae quid tibi novi ostenderit, Sen. Ep. 79, 1 .--
B. = ambitus, an open space left around a building, Varr. L. L. 5, § 22; cf. Paul. ex Fest. p 5, 4 Müll.; Inscr Marin. Fratr. Arval. p. 369.--
III. Trop
A. In rhet., a period: in toto circuitu illo orationis, quem Graeci periodon, nos tum ambitum, tum circuitum, tum comprehensionem, aut continuationem aut circumscriptionem dicimus, Cic. Or. 61, 204; cf. Quint 9, 4, 124: modo ne circuitus ipse verborum sit aut brevior quam aures exspectent, aut longior, etc., Cic. de Or 3, 49, 191 ; 3, 51, 198; id. Or. 23, 78; Quint. 8, 6, 59; 11, 1, 6. --In plur.: oratio longiores habet saepe circuitus, Quint. 9, 4, 60 .--
B. In the postAug. per., a circumlocution, periphrasis, a roundabout way in speech or action; an indirect procedure.
1. Of speech, ea, quae proprie signari poterant, circuitu coeperint enuntiare, Quint. 12, 10, 16; 12, 10, 41; 5, 7, 16; 10, 1, 12: loqui per circuitus, Mart. 11, 15, 8 .--
2. Of action: cur circuitu petis gloriam, quae ad manum posita est? Curt. 9, 3, 14 : negavi circuitu agendum, sed plane jure civili dimicandum, Petr 13 fin.
Last edited by adrianus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Postby Nooj » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:30 pm

Oh that makes so much sense. Our school's library has a Lewis and Short, but I couldn't check it until after this weekend. And I'm really quite clueless with using Perseus.

Maximas gratias tibi ago :)
Nooj
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:53 pm

Postby adrianus » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:34 pm

My pleasure, Nooj. Volup mihi est, Nooj.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Postby Nooj » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:31 pm

Okay, here's another one:

11 Sed extende paululum manum tuam et tange cuncta, quae possidet, nisi in faciem benedixerit tibi

But extend your hand just a little and touch everything which he possesses, and he will curse your face.

How does the nisi fit in here? Every other instance I've seen this word was 'except, unless'. Perseus states:
Nooj
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:53 pm

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:07 am

If you look at the entry for si, section II.B., si can be used with an implicit verb. So I think that works here and you get "...he possesses, and [see] whether he will not curse you to your face." (That seems equivalent to "...and he will surely curse you to your face" which the Greek version has, both with the odd bless means curse thing.)
modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Postby Nooj » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:48 am

Woops, I must have been distracted, my previous post was left hanging. :oops:

modus.irrealis wrote:If you look at the entry for si, section II.B., si can be used with an implicit verb. So I think that works here and you get "...he possesses, and [see] whether he will not curse you to your face."
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

modus.irrealis wrote:(That seems equivalent to "...and he will surely curse you to your face" which the Greek version has, both with the odd bless means curse thing.)
If I remember correctly, the editors did this so as not to impeach upon God, even though it was a character doing it.
Nooj
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:53 pm

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:47 pm

Nooj wrote:If I remember correctly, the editors did this so as not to impeach upon God, even though it was a character doing it.

It stills seem a little odd, but now at least, it's understandably odd.
modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Postby Nooj » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:58 am

Praeterea cur vere rosam, frumenta calore

This is line 174 from the first book of De Rerum Natura. How do you scan this line in hexameter? I tried but I can't get my head around it. :?:

???? -- -- -- -uu -x

And then how to do praeterea?
Nooj
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:53 pm

Postby Kasper » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:51 am

Praeterea cur vere rosam, frumenta calore
- u u|- - | - u u | - // - | - u u| - u |
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Postby Nooj » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:56 pm

Hm...doesn't the ablative ending of vere mean the 'e' should be long?
Nooj
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:53 pm

Postby Twpsyn » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:13 pm

No. The third declension consonant-stem ablative singular is short e. Kasper's scansion is correct.
Twpsyn
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:30 am
Location: Head: in the clouds


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 93 guests

cron