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I invoke the vast powers of the tubes! Aspirated clusters.

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I invoke the vast powers of the tubes! Aspirated clusters.

Postby annis » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:34 pm

I have been trying to find some — any — online resource that might give me sound files of Armenian with a phonetic transcription somewhere nearby. I want to hear a consonant cluster of aspirated, voiceless stops. Any of our linguisticky types know of such a thing?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby modus.irrealis » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:41 pm

You might find something at the UCLA Phonetics Lab Archive, where it has some files on Armenian -- the first word-list has bɛtʰkʰ, but that's all I found after a quick look-through. There are a lot of languages there, though, if you know any others. There's also the UCLA Phonetics Lab itself but it doesn't seem to have any examples.
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Postby annis » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:53 pm

William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Amadeus » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:10 pm

Alas, there are no examples of pÊ°tÊ°. :cry:

But a great find nevertheless! :D Thanks Modus!
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Postby annis » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:16 pm

Amadeus wrote:Alas, there are no examples of pÊ°tÊ°.


But we have a model for it. Well, I do, at least. I was most concerned about the articulation of the first element of the cluster. The second is easy.

Perhaps we should wish Modus ἄφθιτον κλέος.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Amadeus » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:21 pm

annis wrote:But we have a model for it.


Yes, of course! But it would have been nice to have that particular cluster, don't you agree? :wink:
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby annis » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:26 pm

Amadeus wrote:Yes, of course! But it would have been nice to have that particular cluster, don't you agree? :wink:


μάλιστά γε!
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:27 am

After listening to the Georgian example a couple times, I hear something, but I doubt I would be able to distinguish something like [pÊ°kÊ°] vs. [pkÊ°]. Fortunately with Greek, that skill doesn't seem necessary since the distinction doesn't seem to exist there (and of course there's the fact that I'm not going to be running into any speakers any time soon). But it makes me wonder, are there are any languages where this distinction is phonemic?
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Postby Lucus Eques » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:01 am

So Will, would you now say that φθ probably would have fullsome aspiration on both consonants?

Awesome find. :)
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Postby annis » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:05 am

Lucus Eques wrote:So Will, would you now say that φθ probably would have fullsome aspiration on both consonants?


I haven't decided yet, though I've become less resistant to the idea. I just wanted to see if epenthetic vowels were usual in this sort of cluster — they aren't.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
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