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Qs in Ch. 8 and 9

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Qs in Ch. 8 and 9

Postby jeffclef » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:40 pm

Hi, I'm new here. So glad I found this forum. I'm a grad student and need to pass a proficiency exam in a classical language by the end of next fall to satisfy degree requirements. I'm depending on my strength in modern languages and the kindness of the experts here to help me get through Wheelock this summer. Props to Benissimus for his helpful key.

I have two questions concerning #13 from the Practice & Review:
On account of that courage of yours those (men) will lead no troops into these places tomorrow.

Benissimus' Key: Propter istos animos, illi nullas copias in haec loca ducent.
My translation: Propter istam virtutem, illi nullas copias in hos locos ducent.

1) Is "Propter istam virtutem" also acceptable? Is there a difference in nuance between the meaning of "animi" and "virtus"?
2) I understand why "haec loca" is a better translation, but I'm still confused by the vocabulary entry for locus, which is listed as masculine in the singular and masculine (and neuter?) in the plural. Why does the noun change gender in the plural? Are there other common "gender benders" like locus that I should be aware of?

Also, would someone please check my translation of the following sentences from the short passage exercise. I bolded the phrase that gave me trouble.

Tolle, igitur, istas excusationes: "Nondum satis pecuniae habeo. Si quando illud satis habebo, tum me totum philosophiae dabo. Incipe nunc philosophiae, non pecuniae, studere.

My translation: Therefore, take away those excuses: "I don't yet have enough money. If I ever [will] have enough money, then I will give myself the whole of philosophy." Now begin devoting yourself to philosophy, not money.


Thanks,
Jeff
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Re: Qs in Ch. 8 and 9

Postby Twpsyn » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:12 pm

jeffclef wrote:1) Is "Propter istam virtutem" also acceptable? Is there a difference in nuance between the meaning of "animi" and "virtus"?


In this context they are fairly interchangeable.

2) I understand why "haec loca" is a better translation, but I'm still confused by the vocabulary entry for locus, which is listed as masculine in the singular and masculine (and neuter?) in the plural. Why does the noun change gender in the plural? Are there other common "gender benders" like locus that I should be aware of?


There are a few nouns that are just like that (often with altered meanings in the plural). For example, balneum, 'bath'; balneae, 'public baths'. castrum, 'fort'; castra, 'camp'. According to Allen & Greenough's, loca is the more usual plural for physical 'places', and loci refers to 'topics, passages in books'.

me totum philosophiae dabo
'then I will give myself the whole of philosophy'


Ooh, tricky. You interpreted philosophiae as a genitive qualifying totum, which technically it could be by its form. However, if it were 'giving me (something)', me would be dative; besides which, the more natural Latin idiom for 'the whole of philosophy' would simply be philosophiam totam.

Hint: totum modifies me, and philosophiae is dative.
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Postby jeffclef » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:06 am

Thanks for helping me out, Twpsyn (not a fan of vowels? :wink:).

me totum philosophiae dabo
'then I will give myself the whole of philosophy'

Ooh, tricky. You interpreted philosophiae as a genitive qualifying totum, which technically it could be by its form. However, if it were 'giving me (something)', me would be dative; besides which, the more natural Latin idiom for 'the whole of philosophy' would simply be philosophiam totam.

Hint: totum modifies me, and philosophiae is dative.


I think I got it now. So "me totum" is the direct object singular (accusative) and the correct translation should be "I will give my entire self to [the pursuit of] philosophy." Is that right?
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Postby Twpsyn » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:26 am

jeffclef wrote:Thanks for helping me out, Twpsyn (not a fan of vowels? :wink:).


Or a fan of Welsh.

I think I got it now. So "me totum" is the direct object singular (accusative) and the correct translation should be "I will give my entire self to [the pursuit of] philosophy." Is that right?


Indeed. Good luck with the Latin!
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Postby jeffclef » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:22 am

Ah yes, Welsh--the scrabble player's favorite language. The only word of Welsh I know is "crwth" (crowd), which I picked up from having read Ezra Pound's Cantos: "Napoleon wath a goodth man, it took uth / twenty yearth to crwuth him."
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