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Article definite

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Article definite

Postby idir » Sat May 03, 2008 8:50 am

Hello,


I know that there was not a definite article in Latin,but they could recognize between: The good girl and The girl is good,
filia bona et filia est bona
But in modern Italian there is (la-il-i),My question is when exactly these article had appeared, and did they rest in the spoken language only,
Because in my language Tamazight or Berber
there is no definite article,and we recognize betweenThe good girl and The girl is good,
Tbocilt tezyen >>>the good girl
Tbocilt d tezyen>>>the girl is good
The Lettre D is used like the copula in Latin but it is always D,I mean it doesn't change.


Thank you,
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Re: Article definite

Postby quendidil » Sun May 04, 2008 3:35 pm

idir wrote:Hello,


I know that there was not a definite article in Latin,but they could recognize between: The good girl and The girl is good,
filia bona et filia est bona
But in modern Italian there is (la-il-i),My question is when exactly these article had appeared, and did they rest in the spoken language only,
Because in my language Tamazight or Berber
there is no definite article,and we recognize betweenThe good girl and The girl is good,
Tbocilt tezyen >>>the good girl
Tbocilt d tezyen>>>the girl is good
The Lettre D is used like the copula in Latin but it is always D,I mean it doesn't change.


Thank you,

Technically
in
filia bona, bona is used attributively.
"Good girl"
in
filia est bona, bona is the predicate.
Girl is good.
Definitivity is not involved, we can just as well translate that as "a good girl", depending on the context.

La and il evolved from illa and ille in Latin, which meant "that" originally until it became so common that it became the article.
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Postby idir » Mon May 05, 2008 9:03 am

La and il evolved from illa and ille in Latin, which meant "that" originally until it became so common that it became the article.



Thank you for this information, it is the same in Tamazight(which it is the language of the native north Africa ,they say Bocil ihi wili yzegret
which means litrally That boy which he is long->The long boy,But this method is still used in Tamazight,,,Thank you so much.
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Postby annis » Mon May 05, 2008 12:34 pm

idir wrote:Bocil ihi wili yzegret


Ooh, Tamazight. I was just listening to Aza yesterday.

What sound are you using the c to represent? Too bad a Tifinagh font probably isn't installed on most computers...

It would be interesting to see all the words for "this" and "that" in Tamazight. I'm curious to see if the word d might be a distant relation.
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Postby idir » Wed May 07, 2008 10:23 am

The leter c represent the sound Sh in English,and i am so happy that you know some thing about Tamazight, If you want more information ask me , These web sites may help you:
http://www.tawalt.com http://www.ircam.com
I'm curious to see if the word d might be a distant relation

The word D is a relation to show that the word after is a predicate, really i want to find if there are a Latin effect in Tamazight because of the Roman occupation from the fall of Carthage until the Arab invagion prox(700)exept the period of vandals about 90years.
The effect may be in grammer,or in vocabulary.

Tuba(Latin)----------->Tubbu(Tamazight),Tebja(tamazight)
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