Textkit Logo

"non" in imperative

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

"non" in imperative

Postby Junya » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:48 pm

Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan

Re: "non" in imperative

Postby Apollimagine » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:38 pm

Hi!

In Latin, negative Imperative phrases are formed either by ne+conjunctive perfect (i.e. "ne in pane vixeris") or by noli/nolite+present infinitive (i.e. "noli in pane vivere").
I was once told that one form is used when talking about a common prohibition (this would be your case) and the other one when talking about a single event, but I am not sure which one is which... sorry...
Apollimagine
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:41 pm
Location: Germany, Hesse

Postby MiguelM » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:41 pm

It is not an imperative but a future sentence. However, you can get the meaning well by using the imperative, "You will live // You shall live".

What is written and how it is best translated are not always the same.
User avatar
MiguelM
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:35 am
Location: Portugal

Postby Junya » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:12 pm

I seem to have been vague with the grammatical term "imperatve".

First, what is the difference between second person imperative and third person one?

In this quotated sentence, I guess it is prohibition. And I thought prohibiting sentence was included in imperative.

I remember it was written that future sentence can be meant as imperative.

And in the imperative sentence using the future tense there are two, second person and third person.

Do you use "ne" for both persons, for prohibition?

I feel it is somehow strange to use "ne" in the third person sentence.

Because I feel "ne" is used when the speaker is addressing the hearer directly, but when you give order to a third person you don't address the person directly.

So I guess, when it is third person, "non" would be appropreate instead of "ne".




And I want to know if you use "non" or "ne" in future imperative second person.
Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan

Postby timeodanaos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:15 pm

timeodanaos
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:36 pm
Location: Hafnia, Denmark

Postby Junya » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:30 pm

Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan

Postby MiguelM » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:50 pm

"Imperative" mode, in strictly grammatical terms, is a verb form that expresses a command.

"panem mihi da!"
Give me bread!

"noli puellam amare!"
Do not love the girl!

However, other sentences can transmit the same sense without recurring to the verb mode.

"Non in pane solo vivet homo"
Man will not live by bread alone.

"urbem condes"
You shall found the city.

The notion that one is able to make a future statement about something can be very imperative, for only those with the power to "enforce" can make such statements.
User avatar
MiguelM
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:35 am
Location: Portugal

Postby benissimus » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:59 am

User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Postby Junya » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:19 pm

Thank you.

But I still have something vague. But if I ask about it I might look too persistent a questioner. So I can't. Can I question again about the thing?
Junya
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:26 am
Location: Japan


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Chris Weimer, Paco and 80 guests