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Athenaze VS Reading Greek

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Athenaze VS Reading Greek

Postby Coulior du Vice » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:51 am

Hi,

I'm looking for a textbook that uses the immersion method (like Lingua Latina) proficiently. Do you recommend Athenaze or Reading Greek?

Thank you.

(I've edited this post at least twice so far :) )
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Postby savarez » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:58 pm

The JACT Reading Greek Course has just released its second edition, and, if you are going to be doing a self-study program, and do not mind waiting a few weeks for the publication of the final volume, I'd go with the JACT course, as it has the three complimentary books: Reading and Vocabulary; Grammar and Exercises; and the Independent Study Guide.

The Independent Study Guide is, for an autodidact, a valuable asset.

But both courses move quickly enough to get you reading nice chunks of connected prose.

My recommendation would be:

1. JACT Reading Greek 2ed
2. Athenaze, 2ed
3. JACT Reading Greek 1ed

And, while the JACT 1ed is cheaply available due to its supersession by the 2ed, I would strongly prefer the 2ed over the 1ed. The revised edition really is that much better.
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Postby Amadeus » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:13 pm

You might also consider "Thrasymachus" by Peckett and Munday and/or "A Greek Boy At Home" by W. H. D. Rouse. Neither of these, however, follows the same intuitive method of Lingua Latina, but they do get you reading Greek from the start.
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Postby tico » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:00 pm

savarez wrote:And, while the JACT 1ed is cheaply available due to its supersession by the 2ed, I would strongly prefer the 2ed over the 1ed. The revised edition really is that much better.


What are the main differences between the two editions?
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Postby savarez » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:50 pm

tico wrote:
savarez wrote:And, while the JACT 1ed is cheaply available due to its supersession by the 2ed, I would strongly prefer the 2ed over the 1ed. The revised edition really is that much better.


What are the main differences between the two editions?


The core of the books are the largely the same, as one might expect, but the presentation had drastically changed.

The Text and Vocabulary are now combined, so you don't have to keep flipping back to a different book for the running vocabulary.

The Grammar is presented in a much more coherent, readable format, making excellent use of tables, color and shading.

The new books are significantly larger, making the pages feel less cramped, and the information is presented in a less dense, more readable style. More exercises have been added.

2e G&E: 9.7 x 6.8 x 0.7 inches x 560 pages
1e GE&V: 8.2 x 5.8 x 0.7 inches x 366 pages

You can take a look at an except from the 2e of the G&E here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0521698 ... eader-link
and can see what I mean.

JACT has done a very professional and thorough job retooling their original 1978 course for the 21st century.

Now... if they would just make the audio available as downloadable MP3 files, they'd be golden!
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Postby Coulior du Vice » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:23 am

I've emailed JACT about something similar. Here it is if you're interested:

Me: "Will you be re-releasing your "Speaking Greek Cassette" in CD format?"

JACT Office: "Yes I believe the recordings for the CD (or if I remember correctly possibly 2 CD’s) have recently been made and this will be offered soon, though I can’t remember if that is in April or July: best to contact Cambridge University Press to ascertain date of release on that."

That's not MP3, but a hell of a lot better than cassette.

Also, I have another question. Would I need to use a more grammar-focused textbook (like "An Introduction to Attic Greek" or "Greek: An Intensive Course") on the side of "Reading Greek," or is it fine by itself?

EDIT: I also have an email from Cambridge Printing Press:

Me: "When do you plan on releasing the JACT "Speaking Greek" audio recordings on CD format?"

Cambridge: "This is not far off now, publication should be around June or July. Sorry I cannot be more specific, it is a bit too early to tell."
Last edited by Coulior du Vice on Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby quendidil » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:34 am

I have heard that the JACT recordings don't feature pitch, but vowel quantity and quality are accurate enough; can anyone comment?
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Postby jk0592 » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:44 am

Athenaze is a book using a standard academic method to teach Ancient Greek. it is not an immersion method, although the exact meaning has to be defined.
Aound this part of the country, immersion means complete exposure to a language, in all aspects of life, at school for example, where all teachings in all subjects would use the foreign language.
I do not think this is what you will find in Athenaze.
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Postby tomroper » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:42 am

My copy of the JACT Independent Study Guide came this morning. The preface refers to the CD so it can't be far off.
I converted the cassette of the old edition audio to MP3s, so I could listen to them on my iPod. With JACT's/CUP's consent, I would happily share them with anyone who wanted.

Coulior du Vice wrote:I've emailed JACT about something similar. Here it is if you're interested:

Me: "Will you be re-releasing your "Speaking Greek Cassette" in CD format?"

JACT Office: "Yes I believe the recordings for the CD (or if I remember correctly possibly 2 CD’s) have recently been made and this will be offered soon, though I can’t remember if that is in April or July: best to contact Cambridge University Press to ascertain date of release on that."

That's not MP3, but a hell of a lot better than cassette.

Also, I have another question. Would I need to use a more grammar-focused textbook (like "An Introduction to Attic Greek" or "Greek: An Intensive Course") on the side of "Reading Greek," or is it fine by itself?

EDIT: I also have an email from Cambridge Printing Press:

Me: "When do you plan on releasing the JACT "Speaking Greek" audio recordings on CD format?"

Cambridge: "This is not far off now, publication should be around June or July. Sorry I cannot be more specific, it is a bit too early to tell."
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Postby thesaurus » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:14 pm

I'm only a beginner, but thanks to Interaxus' generosity, I'm using "Athenaze" the Italian edition. The signifigance of this is that the book has been substantially rehauled to follow the model of Lingua Latina. It's not identical, though, because there are translations (in Italian) scattered at the bottom of each page. Also, there are various sections at the end of each chapter covering the grammar presented in the reading.

However, the intuitive core of the material is its strength, and all the features you've come to love are still there: the marginal notes, pictures, derivations, and most important of all, the continuous and long passages of Greek. I'm learning tons of vocabulary, and even though only the present tense (and imperative) has been introduced, I've read at least 15 pages of Greek. It's done wonders for my progress (compared with my stints at traditional grammars).

The caveats: you'd want to be able to read basic Italian, and I don't think you can get the book without ordering it from Italy. However, it's a book worth investigating. I'd be nice to translate the Italian into English (or maybe Latin?), but the irony of the situtaion is palpable.
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Postby megas_yiannakis » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:15 am

is the independant study guide really needed with the reading greek set? im going to be learning attic by myself but ive already finished pharr, so i wonder if ide need the study guide?
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Postby aloimonon » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:02 pm

ἀλλ' ἔγωγε ἐξ αὐτῶν τούτων μᾶλλον αὐτὸν τεθαύμακα, ὅτι ἔν τε ἀλλοκότοις καὶ ἐν ἐξαισίοις πράγμασι αὐτός τε διεγένετο καὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν διεσώσατο. Dio LXXII 36.3
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Postby thesaurus » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:41 pm

The trouble with Athenaze is that the original version is English and not much like Lingua Latina. However, some brilliant Italians who idolize Hans Orberg's method (and rightly they do) refashioned a new edition in his image. But since it's technically just a foreign language 'edition' of Athenaze I don't think there is any demand to translate it back into English. So we English speakers are left in an awkward situation where the foreign edition is superior (so I'd argue) to the original, but without hope of seeing a translation of it. I haven't done more than flip through the English Athenaze, but it looks more like a grammar that provides numerous reading sections, rather than an intuitive reader w/auxilary grammar.

Forgive my rant. To answer your question, I don't think you'll see an English Orberg Athenaze anytime soon. However, you could tackle the Italian edition without much more than an Italian dictionary. This would be possible if you will be getting your grammar explanations elsewhere, which seems to be the case.

Look at the image on this page, for example:
http://www.vivariumnovum.it/Libri_greci.htm
http://www.vivariumnovum.it/_pdf/GrecCapVI.pdf

Here is the Amazon preview of the English edition (note the lack of pictures, diagrams, marginal glosses etc.):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0195149 ... eader-link

The only Italian to be found is in occasional, one-word definitions at the bottom of the page. If you look up these words all the rest will be intutive/visual, as demonstrated in the marigins etc. You'd want to look up italian translatiosn in the glossary, too. There is grammar and exercises at the end of each chapter in Italian, but they haven't been anything special so far. The real treasure is in the continuous, graded reading. If you already know a lot of grammar you'll progress quickly.

I heartily recommend this book. Of course, you'll probably have to order it from Italy :( I'm flying through volume I, and I'm not looking forward to paying euros/international shipping on volume II.

If you were to need any help, I'd be happy to offer my amateurish translations of all the Italian parts/help in any way.
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Postby aloimonon » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:53 pm

thesaurus,

Thanks very much for having taken the time to answer. The Athenaze Italian edition books sound like they would be useful to me for reading, as in any case I am getting my grammar from Mastronarde. Any vocabulary can be easily found in the small LSJ, so I have no problems there.

It seems to me from this thread that the second edition JACT Reading Greek might use the same approach, and at least it is in English, but as in the case of the Italian version of Athenaze, it is a costly proposition. I think that have more than enough reading material for the moment, and perhaps I can think of such an expenditure(s) after I have finished Thrasymachus and Greek Through Reading. God knows (at least for me) that there are enough temptations to read Greek (or English) instead of to study the grammar, so at least for now I need to continue on with what I have. But thanks so much for you answers, as they may be useful to me in the future.
ἀλλ' ἔγωγε ἐξ αὐτῶν τούτων μᾶλλον αὐτὸν τεθαύμακα, ὅτι ἔν τε ἀλλοκότοις καὶ ἐν ἐξαισίοις πράγμασι αὐτός τε διεγένετο καὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν διεσώσατο. Dio LXXII 36.3
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