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substantive usage of the participle in Herodotos

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substantive usage of the participle in Herodotos

Postby vir litterarum » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:30 pm

τὰ μέν νυν ἓξ ἔτεα τῶν ἕνδεκα Σαδυάττης á½￾ ἌÏ￾δυος ἔτι Λυδῶν ἦÏ￾χε, á½￾ καὶ á¼￾σβάλλων τηνικαῦτα á¼￾Ï‚ τὴν Μιλησίην τὴν στÏ￾ατιήν: Σαδυάττης οὗτος γὰÏ￾ καὶ á½￾ τὸν πόλεμον ἦν συνάψας:
1.18.2

Can a participle used substantively be separated from its article by ἦν? Or is the participle συνάψας not being used substantively here?
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Postby Rindu » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:05 pm

No, it isn't substantive. It is modifying Saduattes. "This Saduattes was the one who took up..."
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Postby vir litterarum » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:41 pm

But translating it as "the one who took up" is still translating the participle as a substantive in predicate relation to Saduattes.
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Re: substantive usage of the participle in Herodotos

Postby Didymus » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:33 pm

vir litterarum wrote:τὰ μέν νυν ἓξ ἔτεα τῶν ἕνδεκα Σαδυάττης á½￾ ἌÏ￾δυος ἔτι Λυδῶν ἦÏ￾χε, á½￾ καὶ á¼￾σβάλλων τηνικαῦτα á¼￾Ï‚ τὴν Μιλησίην τὴν στÏ￾ατιήν: Σαδυάττης οὗτος γὰÏ￾ καὶ á½￾ τὸν πόλεμον ἦν συνάψας:
1.18.2

Can a participle used substantively be separated from its article by ἦν?


Yes. Cf. 1.103.2: Οὗτος á½￾ τοῖσι Λυδοῖσί á¼￾στι μαχεσάμενος ὅτε νὺξ ἡ ἡμέÏ￾η á¼￾γένετό σφι μαχομένοισι ...

This is, however, a rather unusual usage. I seem to recall a case in book 3 as well, but I can't pin down a reference for you.
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Postby vir litterarum » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:52 pm

Thanks for the reference. I haven't found any references in Smyth to this issue, and, as you stated, I think it is relatively rare.
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Postby Rindu » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:02 pm

But it isn't a substantive if it is modifying another noun. Then it is a predicate adjective.
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Postby vir litterarum » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:05 pm

It's not modifying another noun. It's functioning as a predicate noun, not as a predicate adjective, i.e. "...for this Saduattes is the one also having commenced the war."
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