prin... prin. + infinitives

[megas_yiannakis]

XAIPETE!

Line 98-99, iliad book 1:

Ï€Ï￾ίν γ' από πατÏ￾ί φίλωι δόμεναι ελικώπιδα κοÏ￾Ï￾ην απÏ￾ιάτην ανάποινον, άγειν θ' ιεÏ￾ήν εκατόμβην ες ΧÏ￾Ï￾σην.

im abit confused why αποδίδωμι and άγω are in the infinitive form here... has it got something to do with the Ï€Ï￾ίν... Ï€Ï￾ίν construction?

Pharr says in a note to translate it as "he will not sooner frive off pestilence... till (we) give back..."

How did he get to that? lol i understand whats the passage is saying, but would just like to know about the construction and the infinitives... thanks alot

John.

[modus.irrealis]

Yup, it's because of the Ï€Ï￾ίν -- well the second Ï€Ï￾ίν. The most common construction in Homer with Ï€Ï￾ίν used as a conjunction is to have the verb be in the infinitive. The first Ï€Ï￾ίν is just an adverb, also meaning "before", but I think it's pretty common to see two Ï€Ï￾ίν together like in this case.

For the Pharr note, he's translating the first Ï€Ï￾ίν as "sooner" and the second Ï€Ï￾ίν as "till." If you think about it, "he won't do X before Y happens" is pretty much the same as "he won't do X until Y happens" and generally speaking when the main verb is negated Ï€Ï￾ίν means "until."

[megas_yiannakis]

thanks tons that makes sence now!

Pharr (also in the notes says though) that the subject of αποδίδωμι is most probably Apollo; if so why does he translate: ... " we give back "... if Apollo is the subject shouldnt it be: ... "he gives back"... or am i confusing my subjects? lol...

Many thanks.

Ιωάννης.

[Bert]

...Pharr (also in the notes says though) that the subject of αποδίδωμι is most probably Apollo; if so why does he translate: ... " we give back "... if Apollo is the subject shouldnt it be: ... "he gives back"... or am i confusing my subjects?

Agamemnon, not Apollo. I think Pharr is saying that the way it is written, it is a little ambiguous for a reason, ie; Calchas doesn't want to upset Agamemnon if he doesn't have to.
I guess the same ambiguity could be conveyed in English with something like; "...He will not drive the grievous destruction away for the Danaans
untill the bright eyed girl has been given back to her loving father,
..."