usage of "te"
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usage of "te"
μη̂νιν* ἀ?ειδε* θεὰ Πηληϊα?δεω* ̓Αχιλη̂ος**
οὐλομε?νην***, ἣ μυ?ι?'* ̓Αχαιοι̂ς* ἀ?λγε'* ἐ?θηκε,
πολλὰς δ' ἰφθι?μους** ψυχὰς ̓?Αϊδι*** π?οι?̈αψεν
ἡ?ω?ων*, αὐτοὺς δὲ ἑλω??ια* τευ̂χε** κυ?νεσσιν**
οἰωνοι̂σι*? τε πα̂σι*, Διὸς δ' ἐτελει?ετο** βουλη?**
Iliad 1.1-5
Is "te" here only coordinating "kunessin" with "oiwnoisin," or is it coordinating
"elwria" with "daita"?
οὐλομε?νην***, ἣ μυ?ι?'* ̓Αχαιοι̂ς* ἀ?λγε'* ἐ?θηκε,
πολλὰς δ' ἰφθι?μους** ψυχὰς ̓?Αϊδι*** π?οι?̈αψεν
ἡ?ω?ων*, αὐτοὺς δὲ ἑλω??ια* τευ̂χε** κυ?νεσσιν**
οἰωνοι̂σι*? τε πα̂σι*, Διὸς δ' ἐτελει?ετο** βουλη?**
Iliad 1.1-5
Is "te" here only coordinating "kunessin" with "oiwnoisin," or is it coordinating
"elwria" with "daita"?
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Re: usage of "te"
that depends on whose copy you read.perispomenon wrote:
You mean 'pasi' instead of ' daita', I suppose?
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With δαῖτα, I think it's impossible for τε to be coordinating κ?νεσσιν and οἰωνοῖσι, since that would leave δαῖτα with nothing to do. To bracket things, you would have
α?τοὺς ἑλώ?ια τεῦχε (κ?νεσσιν οἰωνοῖσί τε) δαῖτα
and then you'd have three accusative for τεῦχε and it's unclear what role δαῖτα is playing. But if you bracket it as (and rearranging the words to make the bracketing possible)
α?τοὺς τεῦχε [(ἑλώ?ια κ?νεσσιν) (οἰωνοῖσί τε δαῖτα)]
it makes perfect sense (at least if my bracket thing makes any sense at all). So I would say it coordinates οἰωνοίσι δαῖτα with ἑλώ?ια κ?νεσσιν.
α?τοὺς ἑλώ?ια τεῦχε (κ?νεσσιν οἰωνοῖσί τε) δαῖτα
and then you'd have three accusative for τεῦχε and it's unclear what role δαῖτα is playing. But if you bracket it as (and rearranging the words to make the bracketing possible)
α?τοὺς τεῦχε [(ἑλώ?ια κ?νεσσιν) (οἰωνοῖσί τε δαῖτα)]
it makes perfect sense (at least if my bracket thing makes any sense at all). So I would say it coordinates οἰωνοίσι δαῖτα with ἑλώ?ια κ?νεσσιν.
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If τε coordinates οἰωνοῖσι δαῖτα with κ?νεσσι ἑλώ?ια, it has to go after οἰωνοῖσι because it regularly stands in second position of whatever it's coordinating.
I never thought of the apposition idea, but as far as I can tell, it's possible and makes good sense. I guess it would be unambiguous when spoken (or sung), but obviously we don't have access to that. The only thing I can think of is to wonder whether the line-end suggests that κ?νεσσιν goes with what comes before instead of the next line -- that's probably why I analyzed it the way I did, because I have a tendency to read in terms of lines -- but I don't know enough to say what usually happens in Homer in these circumstances.
I never thought of the apposition idea, but as far as I can tell, it's possible and makes good sense. I guess it would be unambiguous when spoken (or sung), but obviously we don't have access to that. The only thing I can think of is to wonder whether the line-end suggests that κ?νεσσιν goes with what comes before instead of the next line -- that's probably why I analyzed it the way I did, because I have a tendency to read in terms of lines -- but I don't know enough to say what usually happens in Homer in these circumstances.
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There is a pdf file "Iliad A notes" by C. Bochan, containing parsed Iliad A scholia. You will find there a comment on this specific example.
It is mentioned there that according to a great specialist on Greek particles, namely Dennison, in his work "The Greek Particles" (as i can infer) this would be an "example of a single te connecting two words", and that this te "follows the second word".
Hoping this is some help to you.
It is mentioned there that according to a great specialist on Greek particles, namely Dennison, in his work "The Greek Particles" (as i can infer) this would be an "example of a single te connecting two words", and that this te "follows the second word".
Hoping this is some help to you.
Last edited by jk0592 on Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Do you know if Dennison is using the text with "pasi" or the text with "daita"? If he is using "pasi," it is easy to understand how "te" is functioning. I was just not aware that "te" still held the second position when it is connecting one direct and indirect object with another direct and indirect object.
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If you take the reading δαῖτα, I would think of τε in this line as joining clauses, which here has elided the verb τεῦχε.vir litterarum wrote:I was just not aware that "te" still held the second position when it is connecting one direct and indirect object with another direct and indirect object.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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κύνεσσιν οἰωνοῖσί τε.vir litterarum wrote:where would "te" be placed if one merely wanted to coordinate "kunessin" and "oiwnoisin"?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;