chs XXXII XXXIII and XX XXI μιow verbs and participles

[Tertius Robertus]

i leave you with these question:

1. On the present participle: he presents for them 2 possible charts that differ by the stem. that is, the stem either ends in ovt and nominative wv, ouca and ov; or in ovt avt evt uvt, ending in s in the nominative masc. How the hell can I know to which class the verb belongs? knowing not the stem previously? [at least he says something about the mi which goes into the second]
   
2. On the mi verbs, there are also four (with the pres and imper for each) charts for the mi's differing only by the vowel in the duals and plurals, how can I know to which chart the verb belongs?
   
3. Also, how do their 3rd persons behave when followed by vowel? it is ci does the i drops and the c goes s, or there is nu movable thing? or both?
   
4. He asks to memorize all 11 forms of the participle. but there are only 10
   act: ps aor fut perf, medial: these and fut perf, passive: aor
   
5. Finally do the existence of a principal forms implies the existence of the derived forms? and does its inexistence implies the inexistence of the derived forms? I ask this because of the olekei, which has imperfect, but not the others.

[modus.irrealis]

[Tertius Robertus]

thanks, mode, this is great

[edonnelly]

thanks, mode, this is great

I agree. This info is very helpful. Thanks.

[modus.irrealis]

I'm relieved it makes sense. It was really helpful for me too to try and explain it .

[Tertius Robertus]

i have another question on mi verbs. because we are given another chart to memorize, which is the perfect system of ιστημι, but it is not told whther the chart works for all the mi verbs with the combination (h a) of verb stems..

by the way, i remember to have asked somewhere how to know to which chart the mi verb belongs, it seems that the mi verbs have besides themselves at the exercises lists between parenteses the combination of verb stems, among other things which i am still not able to dechipher.

cheers

[annis]

i have another question on mi verbs. because we are given another chart to memorize, which is the perfect system of ιστημι, but it is not told whther the chart works for all the mi verbs with the combination (h a) of verb stems..

ἵστημι must be taken on its own terms — it's a very odd verb.

I'm not a big fan of the phrase "μι-verbs." There is no such thing as a μι-verb, there are only verbs which have μι presents. It is true that some of the most common μι-present verbs are odd in several of the principal parts, but that's not intrinsic to their taking μι-presents. βαίνω is a perfectly normal present stem but has a root-aorist, ἔβην, which acts like the 2nd aorist of ἵστημι, ἔστην, whereas δείκνυμι has a boring, regular aorist, ἔδειξα.

Each principal part of a verb may have its own character which will not necessarily be predictable from other principal parts.

[Tertius Robertus]

thanks, yeah that makes sense. i found it weird too when he defined athematic and thematic verbs, just to say later that no verb is thoroughly athematic or thematic... some grammarians....

[Tertius Robertus]

there is yet another thing which i didnt notice before. 3 of the mi present verbs (:D) have 2nd aorists, whereas icthmi doesnt. also, these 3 have also a 1st aorist, which is not displayed at the chart. so just i must assume that they are regular on account of this. secondly, does the lack of a second aorsit system is a particularity if icthmi, or a generality of the mi present verbs with stem (h a).

[modus.irrealis]

[Tertius Robertus]

thanks mode

[Lex]

*zot*

Sir, you are Satan. Get thee hence, vile fiend!

Somebody ban this putz.

[annis]

*zot*

Somebody ban this putz.

Lex, if you quote the spammer, you somewhat reduce the effect of me banning them.

I almost always notice these within a day. No need to reply to them unless you've seen something older than a day, and then you should pester me or Jeff directly.