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Adler's Practical Grammar for Speaking and Writing Latin

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Adler's Practical Grammar for Speaking and Writing Latin

Postby metrodorus » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:28 pm

This topic is for users of George Adler's " A Practical Grammar for Speaking and Writing Latin".

The free audio lessons are located on http://latinum.mypodcast.com

The textbook can be downloaded for free from Google Books, by searching for the exact words "Adler Latin Perpetual".

The 'Key to the Exercises' in the textbook is also available for free on Google Books. The exact search words for finding this book on Google Books are:
"adler latin key 1858 boston" These magic words will bring it to the top of the list.

A pdf scan of the blurry pages in the Google Book version of Adler can be found here (Thanks Nathanael for providing this):
http://www.e.millner.btinternet.co.uk/l ... Latin.html
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On the Adler's site

Postby rzcortes » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:55 pm

Thank you very much for posting this. This will be a big help to my endeavor to teach my students spoken Latin.
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spoken latin

Postby metrodorus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:39 pm

Glad to be of help.

-Evan.
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Postby edonnelly » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:42 pm

To simplify getting the books, here are direct links to the Google books:

Practical Grammar of the Latin Language by George J. Adler

Key to the Exercises Contained in Adler's Practical Grammar of the Latin Language by George J. Adler

Is this a pretty good book? I'd like to hear more about it and the audio lessons.
The lists:
G'Oogle and the Internet Pharrchive - 1100 or so free Latin and Greek books.
DownLOEBables - Free books from the Loeb Classical Library
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Adler's Grammar

Postby metrodorus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:04 pm

How does Adler's grammar rate?
In terms of its erudition, and the quality of the Latin in it, very highly - Adler was a genius.

In terms of the physical quality of the online edition of the text - a bit dodgy in places, thanks to Google's being sloppy . It is a dense 19th century text. No pictures. Small print. A re-scan is available online for some of the dodgy pages. A few were left out inadvertently, and the book will be re-scanned shortly.

Is there anything to compare it with? Not really. Adler's book is a Latin version of one of Ollendorff's method books for learning to speak a modern foreign language, but applied methodically to Latin. It is very comprehensive, and covers pretty much the entirety of Latin grammar along the way. Adler spent four lonely years writing it, including trips from the USA to visit the libraries of Oxford and Cambridge and other libraries on the Continent, to examine manuscripts.

Unlike most modern Latin conversational books, it has a huge corpus of examples, in every possible permutation. The goal is to learn to speak the language intuitively, from exposure to the structures of the language itself. These are built up very slowly step by step, so you seem to acquire the language almost effortlessly. In that sense, the grammar in the book is descriptive - you apply it after the fact, so to speak, to structures that you have acquired intuitively from the examples.

re the audio lessons, you'll have to listen to them and make your own mind up - however, once again, there is nothing out there really to compare them with, as there is no audio course available elsewhere that aims to teach Latin as a living spoken language in its entirety.

The steady uptake of the audio lessons is their best advertisement: Here are the download figures for the lessons, from the date I started the site, until today:

29 audio file downloads in March
5737 audio file downloads in April
7409 audio file downloads in May
25 450 audio file downloads in June
47 432 audio file downloads in July
59 358 audio file downloads (as of two minutes ago) on the 18th August - will probably hit around 100 000 this month at current rate of around 3 000 audio file downloads per day.
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Postby Amadeus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:04 pm

Salve, metrodore!

I'm interested in hearing the lessons by Adler, but they seem to be scattered all over the website. Wouldn't it be great if you could categorize each entry so that navigation can be made easier?

Cura valetudinam tuam!
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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Arrangement

Postby metrodorus » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:40 pm

The lessons are posted on a Blog.

Adlers lessons 1 - 20 are arranged in numerical order in archive week 24.

Click on the archive week 24 link on the right, on the webpage http://latinum.mypodcast.com

Lessons from 20 onward are found in archive week 25.


There is no more effective way of organizing the material, given the limitations of the blog format.

Hope this solves the problem for you.

Evan.
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I've made an index

Postby metrodorus » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:12 pm

I have made an index for all the Adler lessons I have posted until today.

I will try to keep it up to date, although it will probably lag behind the website a bit.

You can find the index here:

http://www.e.millner.btinternet.co.uk/l ... Latin.html
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Postby Amadeus » Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:54 pm

Multas tibi gratias ago! :D
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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Postby BVD » Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:22 pm

Does the Google books PDF download for the text book still exist? I follow the links in this thread and I can get the PDF of the answer key and supplemental scans, but not the book itself.

Any help would be appreciated.
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Postby Interaxus » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:54 am

BVD: I have the same problem! Plus the fact that my Adobe Reader can't open the downloaded pdf Answer Key file. :cry:

On the other hand, the mp3 files work perfectly. I admire Metrodorus no end, but I wonder what the textkit audio gurus think of his version of spoken Latin? He certainly takes vowel length very seriously.

Metodorus: How did you arrive at your version of restored Latin pronunciation? Did you have an inspired teacher/mentor or is everything the result of your own reading and research?

Cheers,
Int
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Postby edonnelly » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:10 pm

BVD wrote:Does the Google books PDF download for the text book still exist? I follow the links in this thread and I can get the PDF of the answer key and supplemental scans, but not the book itself.

Any help would be appreciated.


It's back...

Who knows why it disappeared, but you can get it now. Maybe they were fixing the problem pages. I hadn't downloaded it before, so I can't say if the one there now is any different.
The lists:
G'Oogle and the Internet Pharrchive - 1100 or so free Latin and Greek books.
DownLOEBables - Free books from the Loeb Classical Library
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Postby ingrid70 » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:06 pm

I checked the new version on Google Books: they fixed the blurry pages!
Hip hip huray!


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Latinum Stuff

Postby metrodorus » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:51 pm

Hi,
My pronunciation on Latinum comes from a number of sources - mainly, from an academic perspective, from Bennett. After various experiments, I decided to include the full tonal accent range recorded as being used by the Roman grammarians. This took a lot of effort to master, but I think I've finally 'got' it right enough, with a few small hiccups here and there, which probably only a few people will ever notice.

I had my first 20 or so chapters from Adler peer reviewed by an academic that I have confidence in, and re-recorded quite a few episodes. I make an effort to get the vowel lengths correct, and check almost every word in the dictionary, as even Adler does not mark all the vowels in all his examples fully.

Some issues with pronunciation can never be resolved, and never will be. I do not believe that Restored Classical in its various guises is the only valid pronunciation, but when using it, one should aim for a set of parameters that are generally accepted, and then stick to them consistently.

I do exaggerate certain things on Latinum, particularly in the slow readings. on the assumption that when actually speaking or reading from an unaccented text, you will be more likely to recall the correct vowel lengths, if you have heard them in an exaggerated way.
-Evan (metrodorus)
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Postby Kyneto Valesio » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:15 pm

Well, pronunciation issues aside, I am using the Adler lessons rather intensively. I had no idea there where so many ways to say "Do you have some good wine left"?

I have loaded all the B lessons from lessons 10-32 onto my portable player which I keep with me at all times! Pretty amazing what you can learn while commuting, going to the gym, or just chilling at Starbucks watching the people go by. When I feel that I really have them nailed I will proceed to the C lessons.

If you proceed, Metrodorus/Evan, all the way to the end of the Adler series you will have achieved something rather significant for our language. I am wondering how many hours of recording the entire project will encompass and how many so far you have recorded? Well, anyway, don't stop, please until it is complete. I am a confirmed fan.
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Postby Interaxus » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:44 am

Metrodorus/Evan,

Apologies for mistyping your name last time and many thanks for spelling out your approach to the pronunciation of Latin. Makes complete sense to me.

Incidentally, I'm currently participating in an online Assimil course called LINGUA LATINA SINE MOLESTIA (based on a French book + cassettes from the 1960s) which is an Ollendorf/Adler look-alike though somewhat less comprehensive. Do you know (of) it? If so, any opinions?

Cheers,
Int
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Postby Kyneto Valesio » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:35 pm

Intertaxus......I thought it might not hurt if I offered a comment. I am currently using both programs (adler and assimil) and I find them fully compatible - although as I am sure you are aware different pronunciation schemes are employed. This is not so much of a disadvantage as it might seem. The ear just gets used to switching between "restored classical" and "continental" (for lack of a better term). The important thing about these methods is that they are executed viva voce. This approach unleashes the mind's inherent language learning ability as no inductive/grammatical approach can.

The assimil dialogs are more amusing. The adler sessions are more thorough with regard to drilling on basic linguistic structures. We can become relatively fluent speakers by using such resources.
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Postby Interaxus » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:09 am

Kyneto:

I agree that the two courses are compatible (though I’m only at Chapter 21 in the Assimil course and have only made sporadic raids on the Adler course).

I’m glad you mention the Assimil humour. Punch-lines like

Tunc respondet vicinus: <<Pessime etiam dormii: unum calceum cadentem audivi… et alterum tota nocte exspectavit!>>

may be ‘silly’ but they make re-listening easier and help hook the language into one’s memory.

The Assimil online course also keeps you to a strict timetable. By contrast, you can visit the Adler course ‘whenever you have a spare moment’ - and the sheer scale of the enterprise is in itself a little daunting.

Cheers,
Int
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Postby Kyneto Valesio » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:01 pm

I.T.

I was in the course you are in now in but I dropped out. My reasons had nothing to do with the instructor or the method - I just got distracted. But I still have all the lessons on .mp3, including the instructor provided lessons. Right now I am about where you are in the course and will be trying to stay up with you (I assume you are in the fast track) so as to be able finish with it around June. Assimil is the true living language method; you are plied with just enough grammar to keep you going. The ear does the rest. The two outstanding characteristics of the method are oral models to imitate and facing or adjacent english language text.

John Dobson uses the same method to teach Biblical Greek. He states in the introduction (if I recall correctly) to his text something to the effect that this method (facing translation) and repetition has been proved scientifically to be optimal for language acquisition. Using it, in 3 months I was able to read the Gospel of John. John Traupman uses the very same method in his conversation Book/CD (side by side translation). Pimsleur, I believe, is very similiar in concept.

Evan Millner, I gather, is a strong proponent of this active listening approach and it was a stroke of genius on his part to have identified the Adler text. I pray to God that he completes the project. And I agree with you that the sheer scope of the project is daunting. It can take some time to find what you are looking for and then to organize it on your own drives.

Here is what I plan on doing over the next 7 months.

1. Catch-up with Adler (I am almost current).

2. Finish Assimil by end of June

3. Supplemental listening from Nuntii Latinii and perhaps some poetry.

4. Readings from Oxford Latin Course and Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata

Most of listening portion will take place while in the gym, while shopping, while taking evening walks, etc. And I can't tell you how great a nice boring latin lesson can be at that hour cum somnus nos urget. As for the book work, I can only find time for about 45 minutes per day. Eheu

After 6 years of study (with LOTS of LONG interruptions) I am NOW AGAIN determined to become fluent in latin. For me that means being able to pick up any classical text and read it straight out without recourse to a dictionary every 6 words. I can do this now more or less with certain writers. Others, as everyone knows, are much harder. Being fluent to me also means being able to speak and write the language with some ease.

For the speaking part, I hope in the future to be able to attend some summer seminars. It would also be great if I could find some folks who would like to practice over the internet. Soon I will retire to San Diego. When I get there I hope to found a "Circulus Latinus", one of those groups that meets periodically to talk about art and literature in latin. I sure hope I can find some folks who are interested. Sometimes it gets lonely being a latinist - especially one who aspires to speak. My wife refuses to join me in this insanity.

As for writing, the Grex Latine Loquentium is the only place to be. It is there that the best latin is being written today - my opinion. My own skills are nothing compared to those of the better writers on the Grex, which is almost everybody. Many of the (silent) subscribers are afraid to write for fear of being put to shame. Well, that is ridiculous. I had barely finished wheelock in 2000 when I started to write in that forum. I was warmly received. Maybe I will see you on the Grex.

Other people around here state that they are already fluent and I don't don't doubt that they are. Perhaps they are more diligent than I have been. Perhaps they are more systematic. Perhaps they have more time to study (I have a full time job, a family, as well as a few other interests). Some people are just SMARTER and naturally gifted at languages. Nor do I envy them because that is always a really stupid reaction to anyone else's greater fortune. I know where I am going, I believe I have a pretty good map, I know where the resources are and which are best. The rest is up to me. I just gotta keep plucking at it and never give up until I am there.

Metrodoro.......when can we expect the next set of Adler lessons?
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Current Progress on Adler

Postby metrodorus » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:05 pm

I have currently recorded up to Chapter 37.

I have released a few new episodes today, up to Chapter 33 part b.

As you have said, this is a daunting project. I aim to complete it, but it will take over a year, I think.

George Adler's Textbook is a wonderful thing. One of the wonders of Google Books, is that it has now been resurrected from oblivion, and we owe them a great vote of thanks for taking the trouble to re-scan the book, so that the final online copy would be of high quality.

Only two libraries in the UK have copies of it, and neither of them will lend it. Only a handful of copies survive in libraries in the USA. The book was too radical for its time, and I suspect only a few copies were printed.

Evan.
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Postby tjnor » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:23 pm

So, Metrodore,

I'm curious, how did you find Adler's book in the first place?

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Postby Interaxus » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:59 pm

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Imaginum Vocabularium Latinum

Postby metrodorus » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:40 pm

As an adjunct to Latinum, I have started to compile an online visual vocabulary for Latin for everyday things, using as my basis William's Vocabulary for Speaking Latin (1828), organised roughly thematically. This was done for my own amusement on my computer, but I decided the method was so successful for learning new words, that I would post it online. I do not claim copyright of any of the images, as they are all sourced from google.

Your might find this entertaining, even useful. The learning of the Latin vocable is not mediated by another language. This is therefore a resource of use to students of Latin in any country, as the site contains only images and Latin words and phrases.

You can find my first efforts here: The material is roughly posted according to categories.

http://imaginumvocabulariumlatinum.blogspot.com/
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