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Project "Livening up Textkit for Non-beginners"

This board is a composition workshop, like a writers' workshop: post your work with questions about style or vocabulary, comment on other people's work, post composition challenges on some topic or form, or just dazzle us with your inventive use of galliambics.

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Project "Livening up Textkit for Non-beginners"

Postby Amadeus » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:51 pm

Amadeus omnibus sodalibus s.p.d.,

As you may know, the Textkit forum is going through a bit of a slump. So in an effort to liven it up, I propose we do the following:

1. Pick out a news article that fascinates you and that you are sure will pique others' interests.
2. Translate it to Latin or Greek, either in full or partially. Don't worry about the grammar, because you will put it in the Composition Board, where others will help you polish the work.
3. Once it is finished, and if you have time to debate the article or the events reported therein, post it in the Agora.

Below is my translation of a news article I saw yesterday on Yahoo! http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070720/wl_ ... iId3oXxHcA

Corrections are most welcome. You are also encouraged to translate the rest of the article. :lol:

U.N. action on Kosovo called off because of Moscow

By Evelyn Leopold
Fri Jul 20, 12:43 PM ET

The United States and Europeans discarded on Friday their U.N. Security Council resolution on Kosovo's future status because of Russian opposition.

Moscow fears the complicated European-American sponsored draft resolution would lead to independence for the breakaway province from Serbia. Belgrade opposes this.

Instead, the Western nations would try to initiate negotiations between the leaders of Serbia and Kosovo through the Contact Group of advisors on the Balkans, composed of Britain, France, Italy, Germany, the United States and Russia. But no country has veto rights.

"We regret ... that it has been impossible to secure such a resolution in the United Nations Security Council," said France's U.N. Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere on behalf of the resolution's sponsors, the United States, Britain, Belgium, Italy and Germany.

"We will therefore put on hold discussions on the resolution," he said after council consultations.


Actio N.V. in quaestionem Kosovi a Mosqua interrumpta

Ex Evelina Leopoldo
Die Veneris XX, hora sexta

Civitates Foederatae et Europa Veneris die repellerunt consilium Concilii Securitatis N.V. stato de futuro Kosovi quod Russia opponitur.

Mosqua veritur ne consilium compositum ab Europeis Americanisque provinciam Serbiam ad independentiam adducat. Belgradus opponitur.

In loco eius, nationes occidentales negotiarentur inter primores Serbiae et Kosovi per consiliarios de balcanicis rebus, compositum a Britannia et Gallia, Italia et Germania, Civitates Foederatae et Russia. Nulla autem natio ius vetandum habet.

«Lamentamur... impossibile fuit confirmare consilium tale in Concilium N.V.,» inquit legatus Galliae Jean-Marcus de la Sabliere pro defensoribus consilii, scilicet, Civitatibus Foederatis, Brittania, Belgica, Italia et Germania.

«Inde disputationes de consilio posituri in suspensum,» ait post consultationes.


Valete! :D

P.S.: I hope we don't infringe on any copyrights. I don't think we're in trouble if we post the original and the link, but I may be wrong.
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby timeodanaos » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:04 pm

I think that's a great, albeit somewhat strange idea to set into motion. But a geek's got to be a geek - I'll see if I can make a translation as well one of the next days - that'll be one of my first attempts at expressing myself in latin.

Meanwhile, I have, not having read too much in to the text, a few comments:

'quod Russia opponitur' - I think it would be better to retain the syntactical structure of the English sentence and instead of another clause use an absolute ablative or instrumental ablative (in this case, the difference between the two are very vague) - Russia opponente, Civitates Foederatae ...


The 'adducat' sentence. I seemed to find little meaning in this, too many accusatives. I think i would be more proper, adduco being transitive, to have it read something like 'veritur ne consilium ab Europeis Americanisque compositum independentiam provinciae e Serbia.'

Also the word 'breakaway (province)' is completely missing. Perhaps 'tumultus'or 'inquies' would fit that description.


[/code]
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Postby Didymus » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:30 am

Ah, most enjoyable! I shall try to write something tomorrow. :)
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Postby Tertius Robertus » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:04 am

tis good for me.

one mistake: "impossibile fuit confirmare consilium tale in Concilium" should be concilio

also something should conjoin together the sentences Mosqua...adducat and belgradus opponitur (quod, id quod etc)
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Re: Project "Livening up Textkit for Non-beginners"

Postby Amadeus » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:32 am

Amadeus omnibus salutem plurimam dicit,

Thanks for the corrections. This is indeed what is needed --participation.

Below, the new and improved translation. :oops:
***********************
Actio N.V. in quaestionem Kosovi a Mosqua interrumpta

Ab Evelina Leopoldo
Die Veneris XX, hora sexta

Russia opponente, Civitates Foederatae et Europa Veneris die repellerunt consilium Concilii Securitatis N.V. stato de futuro Kosovi.

Mosqua veritur ne consilium compositum ab Europeis Americanisque ad independentiam e Serbia provinciae dissidentis adducat, quod Belgradus quoque repudiat.

In loco eius, nationes occidentales negotiarentur inter primores Serbiae et Kosovi per consiliarios de balcanicis rebus, compositum a Britannia et Gallia, Italia et Germania, Civitates Foederatae et Russia. Nulla autem natio ius vetandum habet.

«Lamentamur... impossibile fuit confirmare consilium tale in Concilio N.V.», inquit legatus Galliae Jean-Marcus de la Sabliere pro defensoribus consilii, scilicet, Civitatibus Foederatis, Brittania, Belgica, Italia et Germania.

«Inde disputationes de consilio posituri in suspensum», ait post consultationes.
************************

I eagerly await someone else's contribution.

Valetudinem vestram curate diligenter!
Last edited by Amadeus on Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tertius Robertus » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:07 pm

Mosqua veritur ne consilium compositum ab Europeis Americanisque ad independentiam e Serbia provinciae dissidentis adducat,


now it lacks a direct object. :cry: quid consilium adducat?
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Postby Amadeus » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:52 pm

Tertius Robertus wrote:
Mosqua veritur ne consilium compositum ab Europeis Americanisque ad independentiam e Serbia provinciae dissidentis adducat,


now it lacks a direct object. :cry: quid consilium adducat?


Right. How's this? "Mosqua veritur ne consilium compositum ab Europeis Americanisque ad independentiam e Serbia provinciam dissidentem adducat".

Now, who's up for translating the rest of the article? :lol:
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby timeodanaos » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:38 pm

Amadeus wrote:
Tertius Robertus wrote:
Mosqua veritur ne consilium compositum ab Europeis Americanisque ad independentiam e Serbia provinciae dissidentis adducat,


now it lacks a direct object. :cry: quid consilium adducat?


Right. How's this? "Mosqua veritur ne consilium compositum ab Europeis Americanisque ad independentiam e Serbia provinciam dissidentem adducat".

Now, who's up for translating the rest of the article? :lol:
Adduco doesn't need the 'ad' with independiam, since it's implicit in the word adduco: adduco = duco ad+acc.

Therefore: cons. adducat indepentiam provinciae dissidentis e Serbia = leads to the independence of the unruly province from Serbia.

Otherwise it would have too many accusatives and too many ad's.

I guess it comes down to the lexical meaning of adduco, which I haven't looked up :oops: - thus I might be wrong.
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Postby Amadeus » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:25 pm

timeodanaos wrote:Adduco doesn't need the 'ad' [...]

I guess it comes down to the lexical meaning of adduco, which I haven't looked up :oops: - thus I might be wrong.


Well, I guess we better look at the lexicon. I've certainly seen several instances of "adducere" with "ad."

On another note, I've been doing some reading on the whole Kosovo (an autonomous province of Serbia, the former Yugoslavia) issue, and it's quite interesting, though complicated. It certainly is a challenge to translate it into Latin, and I like a good challenge. I hope we can take it to the Agora.
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby Tertius Robertus » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:34 pm

Adduco doesn't need the 'ad' with independiam, since it's implicit in the word adduco: adduco = duco ad+acc.

Therefore: cons. adducat indepentiam provinciae dissidentis e Serbia = leads to the independence of the unruly province from Serbia.

Otherwise it would have too many accusatives and too many ad's.

I guess it comes down to the lexical meaning of adduco, which I haven't looked up :oops: - thus I might be wrong.


the construction is this aliquis aliquem ad aliquid adducit - someone leads another one to something. the ad may appear or not, but tis required by the original construction: lead the province to independence: priviciam ad independentiam. there were not "too many" acusatives: only two, one required by the verb, the opther by the preoosition - consilium is neuter nominative.

adducat indepentiam provinciae dissidentis e Serbia means lead the independence of province etc etc

amadeus check page 63 LLvII first line

EDIT: ive just noticed that you have used opponere as deponent in the first attempr, which is also wrong :wink:

EDIT2: vereri implies a respectfull fear, like one towards a god or lighting ray. pick timere instead
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Postby Didymus » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:47 pm

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Postby Amadeus » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:41 pm

Tertius Robertus wrote:EDIT: ive just noticed that you have used opponere as deponent in the first attempr, which is also wrong :wink:


Deponent? I thought opponitur was a passive form, equivalent with se opponit. Why would it be wrong? Anyway, it's been changed to ablative.

***********************
Actio N.V. in quaestionem Kosovi a Mosqua interrumpta

Ab Evelina Leopoldo
Die Veneris XX, hora sexta

Russia opponente, Civitates Foederatae et Europa Veneris die repellerunt consilium Concilii Securitatis N.V. stato de futuro Kosovi.

Mosqua timet ne consilium compositum ab Europeis Americanisque ad independentiam e Serbia provinciam dissidentem adducat, quod Belgradus quoque repudiat.

In loco eius, nationes occidentales negotiarentur inter primores Serbiae et Kosovi per consiliarios de balcanicis rebus, compositum a Britannia et Gallia, Italia et Germania, Civitates Foederatae et Russia. Nulla autem natio ius vetandum habet.

«Lamentamur... impossibile fuit confirmare consilium tale in Concilio N.V.», inquit legatus Galliae Jean-Marcus de la Sabliere pro defensoribus consilii, scilicet, Civitatibus Foederatis, Brittania, Belgica, Italia et Germania.

«Inde disputationes de consilio posituri in suspensum», ait post consultationes.
************************

Ok, now. This is the final version. Time now to move on to another article.
8)
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Postby Amadeus » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:18 pm

Salve, Dydime:

I'm not an expert (yet) on Latin-grammar analysis, so I'll just offer you my personal stylistic emmendations, and then others can compare both works.

NOVI EBORACI: Est quasi convivium divitissimum in alicuius abeuntis honore umquam celebratum.

Secundum typographeum Scholasticum, exemplaria paulo plus octogies centena milia libri nomine «Harrius Potter et Delubra Mortifera», quod volumen septimum ultimumque e serie mirabili a J.K. Rowling auctore edita, empta sunt primo die quo in Civitatibus Foederatis Americae septiontrialis emi poterat. Nullus liber, ne ullus quidem e libris sex prioribus seriei, umquam est tanta cum celeritate tam desideratus quam hic.


So, what say you? :)

P.S.: Don't worry about producing Classical Latin... unless that's what you really want.
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby Didymus » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:05 pm

benevole Amadee, alias ex emendationibus tuis libenter accipio, alias propono ego. iterum:

NOVI EBORACI -- est quasi convivium divitissimum honoris causa alicuius abeuntis umquam celebratum. secundum typographeum Scholasticum, exemplaria paulo plus octogies centena milia libri nomine "Harrius Potter et Delubra Mortifera," quod volumen est septimum ultimumque e serie mirabili J.K. Rowlingse auctore edita ex aedibus Scholasticis, empta sunt primo die in quo in civitatibus foederatis Americae septiontrialis emi poterat. usque ad hoc tempus nullus liber, ne ullus quidem e libris sex prioribus huius seriei ipsius excusis, umquam est tanta cum celeritate tam desideratus quam hic.

Thoughts:

(1) In this context, the basic meaning of abire does seem better to me than discedere. (I say this after consulting my dictionary at home after work.)

(2) octogies: seems right to me, I guess, but I'm shaky on my numbers above 1000, Do you know of a good source that explains how to form such numbers?

(3) I originally had meant something like ex aedibus Scholasticis to go along with edita, but I must have omitted it in my haste.

(4) Good decision to omit liber at the end. Again, a bit of sloppiness that I shall attribute to haste. ;)

(5) I want est after volumen and in before quo. However, you are absolutely correct to remove the unsightly blemish of in before die -- an inexcusable mistake on my part.

(6) You can see a few other slight changes which I have made.

(7) Any ideas for "all-conquering fantasy series"? I just stuck in mirabilis this morning as filler.
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Postby Amadeus » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:50 am

Iterum salve, Didyme!

Commentarios et novas propositiones offero:

***********************
NOVI EBORACI -- Est quasi convivium divitissimum honoris causa alicuius abeuntis umquam celebratum.

Secundum typographeum Scholasticum, exemplaria paulo plus octogies centena milia voluminis septimi ultimique, nomine «Harrius Potter et Delubra Mortifera», e serie omnicapiente [or, omnia corda capiente] J.K. Rowlingis [gen.?] auctore edita ex aedibus Scholasticis [do we need to mention the Scholastic Inc. again?] empta sunt primo die in [IMO, the two "in" preps. are too close together. Why not eliminate this one?] quo in civitatibus foederatis Americae septiontrialis emi poterat. usque ad hoc tempus [But then later you say "umquam," which sounds a little repetitive, no?] nullus liber, ne ullus quidem e libris sex prioribus huius seriei ipsius excusis [hmmm... evryone knows Harry Potter is from J.K. Rowling... I guess it's ok], umquam est tanta cum celeritate tam desideratus quam hic.
************************

Hope I didn't screw up that much. :oops:

Vale!
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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Postby Didymus » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:17 pm

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Postby Tertius Robertus » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:15 pm

er, isnt going away here a idiom for finishing, termination etc etc? shouldnt there be used a similar latin idiomatic sternens, occidens, (but these are for life losing :roll:) valere dicens? :roll:

anyway, tis very good!!!
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