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comedy/tragedy

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comedy/tragedy

Postby Emma_85 » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:15 pm

Both [face=SPIonic]tragw|di/a[/face] and [face=SPIonic]kwmw|di/a[/face] end with w|dia, song. Now [face=SPIonic]kw~mos[/face] means something like a party, but I can't find out where the trag bit comes from :(.
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby annis » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:36 pm

[quote author=Emma_85 link=board=2;threadid=605;start=0#5473 date=1062940504]<br /> but I can't find out where the trag bit comes from :(.<br />[/quote]<br />[face=SPIonic]tra/goj[/face] "he-goat".<br /><br />A perpelexing etymology in any case.
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Clemens » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:39 pm

I've just searched the dictionary and it seems to come from [face=SPIonic]tra&gov[/face].
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Emma_85 » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:46 pm

Thanks<br />It said something like that in my dictionary, but I couldn't actually believe that was what it was.<br />Now... does anyone have any idea what so ever, why this is? It seems a bit strange to me :-\.<br />We're just reading Antigone at school in German lessons, and our teacher told us to find out as much as we can about ancient comedies and tragedies, so I thought I'd start with the original meaning of the words.
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Paul » Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:52 pm

Hi,<br /><br />It seems that tragedy has its origins in songs sung in honor of Dionysos. Such songs were called 'dithyrambs'. The singers, playing the part of satyrs, were dressed in goat skins. Hence 'goat songs'.<br /><br />Cordially,<br /><br />Paul
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Emma_85 » Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:59 pm

Cool, thanks! :D
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby bingley » Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:57 am

From Harper's Dictionary of Antiquities:<br /><br />http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0062&query=head%3D%2311088<br /><br /><br />Tragoedia<br />([face=SPIonic]tragw|di/a[/face] ). I. Tragedy in Greece originated in the lyric dithyramb; i. e. in the song of a chorus at the rites held in honour of Dionysus (see Dionysia). This song, in accordance with the cult of the god, expressed at one time exuberant joy, at another deep sorrow. The cult of Dionysus is also indicated by the very name of tragedy, signifying goat-song; i. e. (according to the usual explanation) the hymn sung by the chorus in their dance round the altar at the sacrifice of the goat (tra/goj ), dedicated to Dionysus. Others derive the name from the fact that, to represent Satyrs, the chorus were clad in goat-skins, and hence resembled goats. These choral songs seem to have received a certain dramatic form as early as the time of Arion , to whom the dithyramb owes its artistic development. The true drama, including tragic and satyric plays, was evolved subsequently in Athens.<br /><br />
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Emma_85 » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:58 pm

Thanks ;D! <br />I didn't know that there was a Dictionary of Antiquities at Perseus. I think I really should take my time to look around that site, seems to have many usefull thing there... when I first found out about Perseus I found the site very confusing though.
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Clemens » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:13 pm

I just love Perseus... ;D<br /><br />By the way: you can find similar information in the Gemoll... :)
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Emma_85 » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:29 pm

I never thought of using my Gemoll ... thanks for the tip! :)
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Beyonder » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:24 am

Hi there,<br /><br />The etymologie of trag/wdia and kwm/wdia :<br />They both end with wdia<br />Wdia comes from Wdw wich means 'I sing'<br />Tragos is the goat like a friend said before and Kwmws means entertainment.<br /><br />Poets Like Aischilos and Sofoklis usually competed presenting tetralogies at the Athenean people.<br />Two tragedies (tragwdies), a satyr and a comedie (kwmwdia) in the end to lighten up the heavy mood of the tragedies.<br />All these types were included in what we call Drama from the greek verb dratw wich means I act.<br /><br />Hope I offered more help than confiousion as English is not my native lang.<br /><br />Take Care,<br /><br />Yorgos
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby Bert » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:10 pm

If [face=SPIonic]tra/goj [/face] means "he-goat", what is the difference between it and [face=SPIonic]o( ai)/c[/face]<br />(This is slightly of topic, but I quess that's alright).<br />
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Re:comedy/tragedy

Postby annis » Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:48 am

[quote author=Bert de Haan link=board=2;threadid=605;start=0#5953 date=1063408227]<br />If [face=SPIonic]tra/goj [/face] means "he-goat", what is the difference between it and [face=SPIonic]o( ai)/c[/face]<br />[/quote]<br /><br />That's a great question. I've never worried about it before.<br /><br />Well, in my dictionaries [face=SPIonic]ai)/c[/face] is epicene. Can be [face=SPIonic]o([/face] or [face=SPIonic]h([/face]. So it seems the first is specific, the second generic.<br /><br />Ah. L&S relates [face=SPIonic]tra/goj[/face] to [face=SPIonic]trw/gw[/face] 2.aorist [face=SPIonic]e)/tragon[/face] "gnaw, nibble, munch" which is certainly a good verb for a goat, regardless of its sex. The Great Scott at Perseus gives additional associations of the beardy or smelly quality of the billy-goat, including (I think this is hysterical) puberty. Male, I assume.<br /><br />The Great Scott says [face=SPIonic]ai)/c[/face] defaults feminine, but can be masculine. Also the name of some bleating sea bird according to M.L. West in his commentary on Hesiod's "Works and Days."
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