Textkit Logo

Monro's Homeric Grammar

Are you reading Homeric Greek or studying Homeric Greek with Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners? Here's where you can meet other Homeric Greek learners. Use this board for all things Homeric Greek.

Monro's Homeric Grammar

Postby PeterD » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:51 am

Hi!

I purchased not too long ago Monro's Homeric Grammar, softcover edition, but, unfortunately, I had to return it because I found the print very small and barely legible. I also went to abebooks.com looking for a hardcover edition. Needless to say, the hb editions were just too expensive.

Is Monro's HG necessary after I'm done with the Pharr text? It's over a 100 years old. I would imagine it to be in many respects redundant, no?

~Peter

p.s. I thought about Chantraine's grammar. Impossible to find!
Last edited by PeterD on Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis
PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Monro's Homeric Grammar

Postby Paul » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:56 am

PeterD wrote:Is Monro's HG necessary after I'm done with the Pharr text? It's over a 100 years old. I would imagine it to be in many respects redundant, no?

p.s. I thought about Chantraine's grammar. Impossible to find!


Hi Peter,

Monro is worth owning and reading. Chantraine made use of him in writing his own grammar.

You can find Chantraine's grammar at Librairie La Canopee.

Cordially,

Paul
User avatar
Paul
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York

Postby chad » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:43 am

hi, both monro and chantraine are quite out of date in parts but are for the most part still v useful. chantraine was able only to assimilate the new knowledge about deciphered mycenaean in a later appendix to his grammar. this affects e.g. theories about the extent of the aeolic forms in homer.

it means that, use the sections on the origin of some dialect forms in homer with caution, but definitely buy these 2 books if you can. there's no new homeric grammar which replaces these yet. :)
chad
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:55 am

Postby Skylax » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:14 pm

I got Chantraine's volume 2 (Syntax) yesterday from a bookshop in Paris using the alapage.com site
User avatar
Skylax
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 8:18 am
Location: Belgium

Postby PeterD » Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:10 am

Thank you all very much.

~Peter

p.s. Paul, Librairie La Canopee is in St-Armand, Que., along the Vermont border, about an 1 hr. drive from Montreal -- cool! :)

p.p.s. I should do myself a favour and also purchase a very good English grammar book. It appears that I don't know my adverbs from my adjectives! Hmm..."compound adjectives "you say, eh? :wink:
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis
PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Postby PeterD » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am

chad wrote:hi, both monro and chantraine are quite out of date in parts but are for the most part still v useful. chantraine was able only to assimilate the new knowledge about deciphered mycenaean in a later appendix to his grammar. this affects e.g. theories about the extent of the aeolic forms in homer.

it means that, use the sections on the origin of some dialect forms in homer with caution, but definitely buy these 2 books if you can. there's no new homeric grammar which replaces these yet. :)

Hi, Chad.

I've noticed on Amazon.fr that the publisher Klincksieck will have a new release this fall of Chantraine's Grammaire homérique: Tome 1, Phon. et Morphologie. Any idea if this is an updated version or just another reprint? Thanks.

~PeterD
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis
PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Postby chad » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:12 am

hi, not sure sorry. if it is being updated, someone else will be the author unfortunately:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Chantraine
chad
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:55 am

Postby PeterD » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:23 am

chad wrote:...if it is being updated, someone else will be the author unfortunately:

Yes, I know---Chantraine died in 1974. :wink:
Fanatical ranting is not just fine because it's eloquent. What if I ranted for the extermination of a people in an eloquent manner, would that make it fine? Rather, ranting, be it fanatical or otherwise, is fine if what is said is true and just. ---PeterD, in reply to IreneY and Annis
PeterD
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:54 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Postby William » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:29 am

Just in case everyone doesn't know: Monro's Homeric Grammar is available as a free download at Google books. It's a large file (26.5 mb), but convenient to have on your hard drive.

WB
User avatar
William
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:16 pm
Location: Kearny, NJ 07032 • Die vereinigten Staaten

Postby mingshey » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:28 am

Sorry William, but I cannot figure out how to find the book. I have tried but Google Books says it cannot find that book in a full view books option. It only gives partial views. Can you tell us some more specific way to find the book, please?

Thanks a lot.
User avatar
mingshey
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Seoul

Postby William » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:09 am

Hi Mingshey,

I followed the search links to this link here. On the page that comes up you should see a download option. I was able to download it that way.

If there is some problem grabbing it from the site, drop me a pm and we'll figure out how I can get you my pdf.

Good luck!
William
User avatar
William
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:16 pm
Location: Kearny, NJ 07032 • Die vereinigten Staaten

Postby quendidil » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:27 pm

I too cannot find the link to download the pdf, all I see is a table with a few links to buy or borrow the book on the right and a few highlighted pages on the lower right.
quendidil
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:39 am

Postby Socrates the Cyborg » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:19 am

I just downloaded the pdf of Monro from Google books no problem.
Socrates the Cyborg
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 2:58 am

Postby perispomenon » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 am

Apparently the link shows different options for different people. When I go there, there is NO download option. I know that when I go to www.google.com , google redirects me to www.google.nl . Perhaps with google books there is also such a mechanism at work?
User avatar
perispomenon
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Mijdrecht

Postby Socrates the Cyborg » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:03 am

I take it you are not in the US? I wonder if this has to do with the fact that what is public domain in the us may not be public domain internationally. I know at project Gutenberg they suggest checking the copyright law where you are at if it's not the US. Possibly Google may have had several reasons for not allowing downloads internationally. I know they got some heat for this project at first. Possibly this was an attempt to reduce complaints.
Socrates the Cyborg
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 2:58 am

Postby Arvid » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:11 pm

William wrote:Just in case everyone doesn't know: Monro's Homeric Grammar is available as a free download at Google books. It's a large file (26.5 mb), but convenient to have on your hard drive.

WB


I have tried downloading Monro from Google Book Search, and when I try to open it in Adobe Reader, I get: "There was an error opening this document. The file is damaged and could not be repaired." I've tried on my Mac running Safari and Firefox, on a friend's PC running Windows, and in our two different Public Library systems' public terminals, and get the same thing. In fact, every file I've tried to download from them lately is the same way, including ones I've successfully downloaded before! They can't find any problem with the files on their server. Has anybody else had this problem? Maybe it's just a mirror serving the Seattle area here?

Also, if you've got dialup internet service, you're limited to about 18.5 Megabytes, because their server times out after an hour. I've done some lengthy downloads and never saw this before.
phpbb
Arvid
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:06 am
Location: Seattle WA

Postby 1%homeless » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:13 am

I downloaded it with a dsl connection and I can view it. However, it seems like almost every other page hasn't been cleaned up. The pages are light brown and have low contrast.
User avatar
1%homeless
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:21 am
Location: East Hollywood

Postby annis » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:39 pm

I harbor fantasies of setting up a wiki where people with some free time could volunteer to transcribe Monro.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby perispomenon » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:19 pm

annis wrote:I harbor fantasies of setting up a wiki where people with some free time could volunteer to transcribe Monro.


Umpf! I am still working on Pharr's tiny little grammar :-) (well, compared to Monro's), getting that into a shape I like.
User avatar
perispomenon
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Mijdrecht

Postby annis » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:33 am

perispomenon wrote:
annis wrote:I harbor fantasies of setting up a wiki where people with some free time could volunteer to transcribe Monro.


Umpf! I am still working on Pharr's tiny little grammar :-)


I know, but Monro and Pharr belong together.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby perispomenon » Thu May 03, 2007 8:57 pm

annis wrote:
perispomenon wrote:
annis wrote:I harbor fantasies of setting up a wiki where people with some free time could volunteer to transcribe Monro.


Umpf! I am still working on Pharr's tiny little grammar :-)


I know, but Monro and Pharr belong together.


Is the Pharr Grammar project having any progress? Just curious. I am planning on reworking the whole of Pharr's grammar into a Dutch version. So no help from me for any Monro project soon ;-)
User avatar
perispomenon
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Mijdrecht

Postby Arvid » Thu May 03, 2007 9:39 pm

annis wrote:
perispomenon wrote:
annis wrote:I harbor fantasies of setting up a wiki where people with some free time could volunteer to transcribe Monro.


Umpf! I am still working on Pharr's tiny little grammar :-)


I know, but Monro and Pharr belong together.


Am I correct in assuming that since Pharr and Monro are in the public domain, we can do anything we want with them? I printed out Pharr (the Google Books version, which has the 4 pages that are missing from Textkit's) and for my own use I'm cutting and pasting (literally!) the relevant grammar sections into the lessons they belong in. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the whole book could be arranged this way, with Monro as the Reference Grammar in the back, and Autenrieth (available from Internet Archive) as the vocabulary? Some explanatory notes on linguistic terminology for those who complain about Pharr's obscurity could be added as well. Just an idea!
phpbb
Arvid
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:06 am
Location: Seattle WA

Postby modus.irrealis » Thu May 10, 2007 2:11 am

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but Monro's grammar is now available at archive.org, at http://www.archive.org/details/grammarofhomeric00monruoft, which is convenient for those of us who can't get it through google books, and it's available in the much better djvu format too.
modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Postby athanathon » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:05 pm

Am I correct in assuming that since Pharr and Monro are in the public domain, we can do anything we want with them?



Yes. Pharr is in the public domain. Technically all literary works created or published before 1927 are not copyright-protected any longer. (U.S. Congress seems to pass a new legislation from time to time to extend copyright protection but that won't effect the works which already have gone into public domain.) However, later versions of Pharr's book as revised by Wright is still c-protected because he inserts his own introduction in the beginning of each chapter. So if you want to make use or distribute Pharr's work, be sure to get it from a copy of the original version and not the later ones. That should avoid copyright infringement.[/code]
athanathon
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Thaialnd

Postby Gonzalo » Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:26 pm

http://www.archive.org/details/grammaro ... 00monruoft
I have found Monro´s Grammar at Archive.org.
Regards,
Gonzalo
Verus enim amor semper tempore tristi elucescit magis. (Philipp Melanchthon: Decl. de studiis Linguæ Græcæ)
Quin age, si quid habes (P. Vergilii Maronis Ecloga III:52)
User avatar
Gonzalo
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:58 am
Location: España

Postby jk0592 » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:06 pm

The problem is that one cannot use OCR because both Greek and English languages coexist in these texts. And transliterating them is a terrible task, because constantly switching from English to Greek Polytonic keyboards is not accelarating the workflow.

With Pharr, it was relatively easy to fully hyperlink the cross references within the text image. It much smaller than Monro.
jk0592
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:20 am
Location: Montreal, Canada


Return to Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bob1016 and 3 guests